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Mirror Image 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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 Posted: August 09 2012 at 20:57 |
 deckard33 wrote:
Music talent is one thing, social behavior is one other thing.
For the second thing, shame on Steven Wilson ...
Moreover, he criticized Roine Stolt for its 70's prog, but what did SW propose until now ?
All its music is strongly inspired from Pink Floyd (first PT albums), King Crimson (latest solo), but much more boring ...
Go on Roine, play what you like, stay what you are, don't waste time to answer to so mindless attacks ...
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Right on!
Edited by Mirror Image - August 09 2012 at 20:57
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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napoca
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 00:50 |
Mirror Image wrote:
deckard33 wrote:
Music talent is one thing, social behavior is one other thing.
For the second thing, shame on Steven Wilson ...
Moreover, he criticized Roine Stolt for its 70's prog, but what did SW propose until now ?
All its music is strongly inspired from Pink Floyd (first PT albums), King Crimson (latest solo), but much more boring ...
Go on Roine, play what you like, stay what you are, don't waste time to answer to so mindless attacks ...
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Right on!
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This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal
tastes.
I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much
bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social
behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly
express his opinions? If he is wrong in
his opinions so what?
After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that
progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve
to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it,
but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen
to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less
to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my
personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like
regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves
or others.
The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me
he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better
Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 01:31 |
Have we managed to kick the arse out of this discussion yet?
As napoca says we will still listen to what we want to regardless. SW is not the messiah just a very naughty boy
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MillsLayne
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2504
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 02:14 |
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SW has always been very opinionated, so these comments don't really surprise me. And, honestly, who cares if he doesn't seem to like Roine Stolt's music or the bands he happens to be associated with? I see a lot of comments on here that are in the same vein against PT and they aren't lambasted the way he seems to be with this particular situation.
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Ytse_Jam
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 502
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 06:28 |
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^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though...
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:11 |
Ytse_Jam wrote:
^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though... |
And imagine the uproar if somebody actually said so on the forum.
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Lofcaudio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 04 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 444
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:44 |
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I just listened to "Raider II" again (the epic from Wilson's Grace For Drowning). When has Stolt ever plagiarized a classic band as much as Wilson did with this song? Raider II is almost identical to early 70s King Crimson. Make a 23 minute edit of Talking Drum, Larks' Tongues in Aspic (either 1 or 2, you pick) and some Moonchild noodling and you've got Raider II.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 09:50 |
I beg to differ, none of those KC tracks are so rambling and devoid of evolution as Raider. 
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Lofcaudio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 04 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 444
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:04 |
rogerthat wrote:
I beg to differ, none of those KC tracks are so rambling and devoid of evolution as Raider.
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Ha! You're absolutely correct in that, but I was trying to be nice to Wilson and to all of the fanboys that seem to think that Raider II is the best epic ever.
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:31 |
Ytse_Jam wrote:
^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though... |
This ignornant comment is what caused me to turn my nose up at Wilson.
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:43 |
napoca wrote:
This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal
tastes.
I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much
bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social
behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly
express his opinions? If he is wrong in
his opinions so what?
After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that
progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve
to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it,
but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen
to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less
to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my
personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like
regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves
or others.
The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me
he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better
Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).
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No, this is a discussion about keeping your fat trap shut. Wilson could have simply stated his opinion about what he thinks of progressive music and leave it at that, but, no, what we get instead is a lot of grandstanding and hot air. I don't have ANYTHING against the man's music so it's not about personal tastes, it's about respecting musicians who are just as inventive and creative as he is. I agree with what another member said that Stolt shouldn't have said anything back, but Stolt comes across as a hard-working and humble musician here as he does in all the interviews I've read with him. In the end, as I've said many times now, there are many fans of both PT and TFK. I think it's unwise to alienate his listeners with these kinds of comments.
Edited by Mirror Image - August 10 2012 at 10:47
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 10:55 |
MillsLayne wrote:
SW has always been very opinionated, so these comments don't really surprise me. And, honestly, who cares if he doesn't seem to like Roine Stolt's music or the bands he happens to be associated with? I see a lot of comments on here that are in the same vein against PT and they aren't lambasted the way he seems to be with this particular situation. |
Again, it's not about whether he likes Stolt or not, it's about respect for musicians who reach from the same pot he does. Wilson's comments are hypocritical and just plain wrong. He is as guilty as any musician from being derivative in some way. Whether he's borrowing from Radiohead, King Crimson, or Pink Floyd, he's not doing anything different than when Stolt borrows from Genesis or Yes. It's just that Wilson needs to learn how to keep these contradictory opinions to himself because he comes across as an arrogant prick.
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 11:25 |
I think this sounds a bit like retro prog, but just a bit because Steven Wilson wrote it.
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napoca
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 13:36 |
Mirror Image wrote:
napoca wrote:
This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal
tastes.
I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much
bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social
behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly
express his opinions? If he is wrong in
his opinions so what?
After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that
progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve
to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it,
but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen
to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less
to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my
personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like
regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves
or others.
The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me
he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better
Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).
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No, this is a discussion about keeping your fat trap shut. Wilson could have simply stated his opinion about what he thinks of progressive music and leave it at that, but, no, what we get instead is a lot of grandstanding and hot air. I don't have ANYTHING against the man's music so it's not about personal tastes, it's about respecting musicians who are just as inventive and creative as he is. I agree with what another member said that Stolt shouldn't have said anything back, but Stolt comes across as a hard-working and humble musician here as he does in all the interviews I've read with him. In the end, as I've said many times now, there are many fans of both PT and TFK. I think it's unwise to alienate his listeners with these kinds of comments.
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In 8 years since I've been member to this forum I posted 15 messages (5 in this post), more or less because of beeing "intimidated" by "senior" members and all sort of VIP like you. Before shuting my fat trap I only humbly want to mention that my position was and is against what SW think about prog and the way he attack Flower Kings and Transatlantic, but probably you were too busy playing God to read what one mortal had to say. I like both PT and TFK but in resonable limits, and I don't see how my oppinion could alienate normal people. SW was arogant, so what, are you going to be the next Mark David Chapman? This being said I leave you now to enjoy your hot air - for me you are exactlly like Steve Wilson.
Edited by napoca - August 10 2012 at 14:44
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vjpthe2nd
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 23 2012
Location: Pa. U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 1
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 14:53 |
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i have Been a "progressive" since i first heard YES in 1969. i still love the style of music, while mr. wilson has made a few good songs songs RONI STOLT has made a lot, many ,a ton of or how ever you want to say it GREAT MUSIC. with Kaipa, Flower Kings , solo,and TRANSALANTIC. mr. wilson go listen to the whirlwind (if your ego can stand it). every great musician or band has there stellar moments, roni has had many ,i guess steve is still waiting.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 15:04 |
CCVP wrote:
I think this sounds a bit like retro prog, but just a bit because Steven Wilson wrote it.
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yep that is so derivative 
Time Flies would have been a more obvious example for me
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Ytse_Jam
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 502
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 19:24 |
Mirror Image wrote:
Ytse_Jam wrote:
^ I don't see anyone saying PT and SW are the death of prog, though... |
This ignornant comment is what caused me to turn my nose up at Wilson. |
Is the "ignorant comment" referred to who?
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 22:59 |
napoca wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
napoca wrote:
This seems to be a discussion ultimately based on personal
tastes.
I don’t see that much talent in SW as I don’t see that much
bad social behavior he seems to expose according to some opinions. What social
behavior - an interview to a minor publication in which he more or less honestly
express his opinions? If he is wrong in
his opinions so what?
After all he might be as much frustrated as we are that
progressive music is not such a major act and huge success as it should deserve
to be. I personally don’t know SW’s “drama” as a musician, I only can guess it,
but this is not my business. What for sure is my business is what music I listen
to. And none of SW declarations and criticism is going to make me listen less
to Porcupine Tree or more to Flower Kings, only because his statements hurts my
personal feelings for a band or a style. I am and will listen to what I like
regardless what the members of band I might like or not have to say about themselves
or others.
The original question was if SW was right or wrong. For me
he was wrong both in the message and the way he conveyed, but I won’t like better
Flower Kings nor Transatlantic (although I don’t like that much PT either).
|
No, this is a discussion about keeping your fat trap shut. Wilson could have simply stated his opinion about what he thinks of progressive music and leave it at that, but, no, what we get instead is a lot of grandstanding and hot air. I don't have ANYTHING against the man's music so it's not about personal tastes, it's about respecting musicians who are just as inventive and creative as he is. I agree with what another member said that Stolt shouldn't have said anything back, but Stolt comes across as a hard-working and humble musician here as he does in all the interviews I've read with him. In the end, as I've said many times now, there are many fans of both PT and TFK. I think it's unwise to alienate his listeners with these kinds of comments.
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In 8 years since I've been member to this forum I posted 15 messages (5 in this post), more or less because of beeing "intimidated" by "senior" members and all sort of VIP like you. Before shutting my fat trap I only humbly want to mention that my position was and is against what SW think about prog and the way he attack Flower Kings and Transatlantic, but probably you were too busy playing God to read what one mortal had to say. I like both PT and TFK but in resonable limits, and I don't see how my oppinion could alienate normal people. SW was arogant, so what, are you going to be the next Mark David Chapman? This being said I leave you now to enjoy your hot air - for me you are exactlly like Steve Wilson.
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I'm pretty sure he meant--- "This is a discussion about Steven Wilson keeping his fat trap shut". I don't he meant 'your' personally, but more generally.
Edited by darkshade - August 10 2012 at 22:59
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 23:04 |
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His English seems to be as bad as Stolt's (or he's just getting agitated), so we should give some benefit of doubt for that. However, he has been somewhat defensive-aggressive in this discussion. That's not really called for on a forum where the art of disagreeing agreeably is valued. If you want to boss people into accepting your viewpoints about Stolt or Wilson, please don't initiate discussions on PA, that's not what it's about. We don't need no fanboys, either which way.
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: August 10 2012 at 23:42 |
darkshade wrote:
I'm pretty sure he meant---"This is a discussion about Steven Wilson keeping his fat trap shut". I don't he meant 'your' personally, but more generally.
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Yes, I didn't mean to say this to another member. I was referring to Wilson. Oh boy, I've gotten myself into some hot water here I see. I'm talking about Wilson and only Wilson folks. Sorry folks!  
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Steven Wilson Vs. Roine Stolt
