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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

how IS it that people can not like albums you like.

Indeed, this IS a mystery....  Wink LOL
Yeah, it IS bloody hilarious. Funnier still if people cannot like the albums you like - that would be really something.

That would be kind of funny, considering enough people bought one of my favorites to place it at place #6 on the billboard chart - that would mean millions bought something they hated.  Which would indeed be funny.  LOL

Maybe all these people I've seen at the Dream Theater concerts wearing their shirts and shouting at the top of their lungs excitedly when they came on stage were just doing it to mess with me.... LOL



So Justin Bieber is better than Dream Theater?  Who knew?  Shocked

Not sure I've ever known anyone to shout at the top his lungs unenthusiastically.  Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2012 at 19:43
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Nice try but I am not even remotely close to a Toby Driver fan.  But that's basically what you sound like when you go on cribbing about DT haters (even, as I should point out, going to the extent of hijacking a Firth of the Fifth thread to force your agenda) so good to know I hit home, either which way.  

I will admit that I have taken some things too personally here.  I am learning to present my opinions on music as merely opinions, and I am working on not taking people on the internet seriously.  Presenting my opinions as nothing but opinion was something I was trying to practice in the review you are complaining about.  But the funny thing is, it seems the door is swinging the other way now - I challenged the greatness of a beloved artist of some of the people who have said not so nice things about artists I love, and now they are reacting in much the same way.  And I think I may have been more kind than they were - so maybe you understand how I felt now?

Well, I am glad that it's taken just a few such pages of backlash for you to start claiming that the door is swinging the other way because at least my own aim was just to make you confront your hypocrisies and understand how tiresome your agenda is.  I am not a TD fan so you are clutching at straws if you think this is about TD fans getting back at DT fans or some such metal keyboard warrior fantasy.   All I have done is to point out that it does look very funny when you write a hyperbole-filled negative review for a band that is not DT for reasons that are self evident.     Maybe the review was not written with any spiteful intent, but you had already set yourself up for such a backlash.  

Of course, it seems like you are still just as characteristically obsessed with your own spectrum, your own worldview and far less with that of the other people who make up a discussion forum (ref: the last sentence).  DT is not the new classical music nor is prog metal (not that people aren't entitled to dislike whatever IS the new classical music either).  There are plenty of bands and artists on this forum that polarize opinions and most people get on with being fans of them without retaliating all the time to opinions about those that they don't like.    

So stop pretending that just because DT are so amazing or blah blah or that they have sold those millions of copies, everybody is obliged to like them or 'respect them'.  I have been on other music forums long enough to know that your backlash against the so called DT hate on PA is way out of proportion;  why don't you hang out on metal-archives long enough to read some really nasty reviews and comments about them and a whole lot of other prog metal bands in that case?  PA accommodates diverse tastes and viewpoints like few music forums so all you have to do is let go a little bit and learn to get along with people.   If that is indeed as difficult for you as you seem to make it sound, pity.   


Edited by rogerthat - July 22 2012 at 19:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2012 at 19:44
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

 
 It's hard for me to ignore that the possibility of Geoff giving an album such as Bath a one star review being instigated by many PA members' open dislike and ridicule of Dream Theater (of whom Geoff is a guitar fan). Basing a negative review off of the likes of other PA members is a very shallow thing to do considering that both people who are members of this site and people who are simply passing by will be reading it. I'm not saying that Geoff was obviously writing this review to spite the musical taste of people who have dissed his profound love for Dream Theater, but it is possible.

That is pure speculation about Geoff's motives without any proof whatsoever and as such does not belong here at all; it's only going to incite conflict for no reason.  With all due respect, Alan, I think that this is out of bounds.  I'm not trying to attack you, just please either keep this kind of speculation to yourself or restrict it to PM.
That is a little harsh Jacob. What Alan has said is what many people will have deduced themselves just from reading Geoff's two maudlin of the Well reviews. Sure 'Bath' in issolation does not reveal much in the way of a motive - [aside from the huge swathes of fiction that the so-called review contains - "Quite suddenly he began to leap about the room, smashing things and throwing them about as an animal, screaming in a guttural fashion" - (well, I don't know about you, but I'm fairly confident that Toby Driver did no such thing, ergo Geoff is telling porkies) which would have been mildly entertaining in small doses, does rather labour the joke when stretched to such lengths, which could be construed as "taking the piss" rather than being witty or even satirical] - but viewed in conjunction with the review of 'Part the Second' (even in its current heavily revised state) where the case for people giving his favourites low ratings is questioned while he then proceeds to give that album a low rating - people can be "forgiven" for reaching a conclusion. Now, Geoff has categorically stated that this rating is not a retaliation rating when I asked him the direct question, so we do have to accept him at his word on that.


I understand what you're saying, I just don't think it's appropriate to suggest something like that on the forums.  It's one thing to think that the review may have been a retaliation, and another to make a suggestion to the entire forum; it's unproven gossip, and that only tears communities apart.  Like I said, I'm not attacking Alan, just trying to reign the discussion into appropriate bounds.  If my tone was too accusing, though, please tell me where it sounded accusatory so that I can try to be more kind in the future.

Sorry, I was just thinking out loud. My paragraph was something that has been mentioned before, so I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion. I'm not actually accusing Geoff of a retaliation rating -- I'm only saying that it's possible. There certainly isn't any hard evidence. I would never straight-up accuse someone of anything based on an assumption, however possible it might be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 04:06
All this fuss...
 
While the retaliation element was quite clear in Geoff's review of Part The Second, I did not feel it in Bath, he just trashes the album because it was an unpleasant listening experience for him, and he is surely shocked that some people may consider it a masterpiece.
 
There are other polarizing albums, Abacab being a paradigm with no less than eleven 1-star reviews from Prog Reviewers, while six Reviewers posted 4 star reviews. There is even a 5-star review fom a normal member.
 
It is certainly a weak album but it seems to me that some Reviewers should also refresh themselves the rating guidelines, you may like Abacab more or less but 1 star does not seem appropiate.
I didn't read anybody reporting those as inappropiate reviews in this forum.
 
I think too that his review was probably too harsh (the effect undoubtedly augmented by the imaginative literary display) but his is certainly not the only one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 06:15
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

All this fuss...

Indeed...

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

While the retaliation element was quite clear in Geoff's review of Part The Second


I rewrote that one about a week ago, by the way (in case anybody would care).  I tried to do a better job of outlining what exactly I didn't like about it, and tried to make it more humorous.  Still don't like the album, and no matter how I write that review it's probably going to tick off the TD fans that I'm not giving it 5 stars, but there's life.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 06:22
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

All this fuss...

Indeed...

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

While the retaliation element was quite clear in Geoff's review of Part The Second


I rewrote that one about a week ago, by the way (in case anybody would care).  I tried to do a better job of outlining what exactly I didn't like about it, and tried to make it more humorous.  Still don't like the album, and no matter how I write that review it's probably going to tick off the TD fans that I'm not giving it 5 stars, but there's life.

 
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

.... but viewed in conjunction with the review of 'Part the Second' (even in its current heavily revised state) where the case for people giving his favourites low ratings is questioned while he then proceeds to give that album a low rating - people can be "forgiven" for reaching a conclusion.
Tongue
 
 
May I suggest you reconsider the idea of writing humerous reviews for things you don't like, no matter how funny you think it is, it is really not that nice.
 
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

  - well, one year there was a band whose name will be omitted in order to protect the innocent, and they were sooooo cliche'd.  And me and my buddies to this day still tell stories about how awful we thought they were, and we get so much enjoyment out of this.  We'll go look up videos of this band together so we can laugh about the experience again.  And there were so many people there that seemed to think this group was the greatest thing to happen to music...EVER.  I'd totally give a 1 star to an album by this band which shall remain nameless, but in a way I got a great deal of entertainment out of them, and I'd also say that what they did took more skill than many things I might give higher ratings to. 
Dead
 
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 09:00
Besides the very "band" related debate (if you can call it a debate)
I dont understand why everyone seems scared to use the 1 star rating, we have only got 5 options.
I have seen quite a few good 1 star reviews, even for albums i like very much myself.
Its all about a good text to explain why you dont like the album
 
I always liked this album, but the reviewer dosent, and he explains why, without trowing dirt.
 
Another example : Same thing, i love this album, especial the first part. Not prog at all, but great Byrne songs.
The reviewer dosent, but gives good reason why not.
 
 
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 09:38
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

Besides the very "band" related debate (if you can call it a debate)
I dont understand why everyone seems scared to use the 1 star rating, we have only got 5 options.
I have seen quite a few good 1 star reviews, even for albums i like very much myself.
Its all about a good text to explain why you dont like the album
 
I always liked this album, but the reviewer dosent, and he explains why, without trowing dirt.
 
Another example : Same thing, i love this album, especial the first part. Not prog at all, but great Byrne songs.
The reviewer dosent, but gives good reason why not.
 
 

Well I use the 1 star rating if I feel the album is worthless or the absolute pits. If it has no decent songs or not enough to warrant the second star it must deserve a 1 star. It is rare that an album receives the 1 star but unfortunately when you hear some of the trash out there it is impossible not to use the 1 star rating.

VDGG's ALT is the latest album to get 1 star and to me it is obvious as it is an absolute let down and nothing on it that I want to hear on a regular basis. It really is a disaster, and I want to forget it is even in the VDGG catalogue as it is appalling. 1 star.

See, its easy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2012 at 17:06
^ In the PA review-writing policy/guide it says "Use 1 & 5 sparingly". Why sparingly? Read the policy/guide. So, I just go with the flow. 

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 23 2012 at 17:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 04:06
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ In the PA review-writing policy/guide it says "Use 1 & 5 sparingly". Why sparingly? Read the policy/guide. So, I just go with the flow. 
 
Ya - but every single reviewer i have looked up - use 1 star very very very sparingly, and 5 stars not very sparingly.
Nothing in the policy/guide says you should do that. ( I did it myself Confused


Edited by tamijo - July 24 2012 at 04:08
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 04:14
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ In the PA review-writing policy/guide it says "Use 1 & 5 sparingly". Why sparingly? Read the policy/guide. So, I just go with the flow. 
 
Ya - but every single reviewer i have looked up - use 1 star very very very sparingly, and 5 stars not very sparingly.
Nothing in the policy/guide says you should do that. ( I did it myself Confused
Yes this is true - however people are more inclined to review their 5-star favourites than their 1-star lemons so there will be more 5-stars than 1-stars and since people are more inclined to review first the albums they like before the albums they think are just okay or average then there will be a disproportionate number of 5-star reviews. But they would still all be following the guidelines. 
 
If every reviewer was asked to review the same batch of (let's say) 250 albums then the distribution of 1 & 5 star reviews would be less frequent.
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 04:24
I don't think I know  any 1 star albums. Well maybe one or two. Keith Christmas "Stories from the Human Zoo" might be a candidate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 04:33
^ yes, there is that ... the number of really truly awful albums in Prog should be a very small number - I can't think of an album off the top of my head I'd call 1-star album - some tribute/compilation albums may qualify I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 04:40
^Which is why I believe 1 star ratings are handed out too easily. Nothing can be done of course but I ignore them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 05:32
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Which is why I believe 1 star ratings are handed out too easily. Nothing can be done of course but I ignore them.
Oh
I can think of quite a few albums. Im not in love with everything recorded.
 
I dont c why i should give Crimsons Earthbound 2 stars, even if i can actualy find a few moments of great music, in this otherwise amaturish recording. I got the album, i wouldent want it otherwise, im a big fan, i need everything with KC.
But a review should give advise, the advise should be, this is low-fi at its worst, horrible sound. At the same time you have a load of other KC live albums, with a lot better music. Go get one of them. 
 
Or Bowies failure to make a follow up on Lets Dance : Tonight
The man made 20+ super albums, why not tell that this is the one you should not get, unless you have everything else he did. 
 
 


Edited by tamijo - July 24 2012 at 05:41
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 15:42
^ I guess what tamijo is trying to say is that if Album A is better than Album B, Album B is better than Album C, Album C is better than Album D, etc., and you have about a dozen or two albums to look over, then the number of stars could say which album is better or worse or just about as good as another album by the same artist/group. Actually, this point has been touched once before in a different thread, but I bet you a billion dollars that I can't remember it's name.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 18:30
^Nonsense.

Many, manyb albums can fall within the wide remit of 2 or 4 stars
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2012 at 18:53
^ Just paraphrasing other people's thoughts, man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2012 at 03:14
Infact would be best if we had just 4 stars, and very political correct too.
All music (especialy if a tiny bit prog) is good, dont have to think at all  ,and with only the 4 star option, we dont have to fight over if the top album is overrated. anymore.


Edited by tamijo - July 25 2012 at 03:58
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2012 at 03:34
I think one tends to remember the 1 star ratings they give, off the top I recall a Morse Code album and something by Radiomobel

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