"Freedom" thread or something

The Truth wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: The Truth wrote: I thought I might announce this here, I can't think of any better place. But after years of hating every part of politics and basically shifting from left to right like some ambidextrous mad man, I have finally found that Libertarianism is the closest to my personal beliefs of any form of political thinking. Gentleman, I now just might frequent this thread. Kill yourself (think of it as unsolicited charity work) I always liked you comments in other threads but honestly... that's not a great statement coming from an admin/moderator concerning a political view. Thanks a ton, man.

Apologies, the remark wasn't expressed well (it was a pale imitation of something Bill Hicks could have made funny)

thellama73 wrote: In my college philosophy of ethics class, we spent a gooddeal of time arguing about what makes a person a "person" worthy of consideration. It proved very difficult for anyone to come up with a consistent response. Some people said intelligence, but refused to say that murdering the mentally handicapped is okay. Some people said consciousness, but were unwilling to say that the act of going to sleep makes one less than a person. Some people said a fetus is not a person because it can't survive on it's own, but neither can a three year old or someone who is in a full body cast. I never heard a convincing and consistent reason why a fetus is not a person, but these other cases are. In my book, if it's alive and has human DNA, it's a person.

I'm really glad I missed the abortion debate, but I just want to add to this particular musing that I believe the definition of person should encompass more than just an alive thing with human DNA.

so is it okay to kill a caterpillar because is not yet a butterfly?

thellama73 wrote: It's okay to kill a caterpillar because it's a caterpillar.

You and I have different burdens of proof Tim.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/nobody_else_made_it_happen_mr_president.html

I think that's a really unfair assessment. To begin I'm not so sure how much he expresses a contempt for capitalism and business. You can find rhetoric where he diminishes it when he's pushing certain ideas through and other rhetoric that extolls it when he wants to pass a jobs plan or something else along those lines.

 Regardless though, people supporting him because he verbalizes these opinions does not mean they long to be tied up in shackles and leeched by the government. They don't see capitalism as something which increases their freedom. In their minds capitalism replaces a centralized government they feel they control with a centralized conglomerate of businesses which, aside from them not controlling, they see as necessarily preying on them because of their profit incentive. It's very well that they suppose the government by restricting business will be able to increase possibly the potential freedom, but most certainly the realized freedom, of the people. A lot of starving men would trade their freedom for a hot dog and be more free for it. A lot of people are starving right now.

I also don't like the tone of the article. What does it matter that Obama, or anybody at all, has never run/started a business? I would prefer an article which just describes the process without appealing to some ill forged authority as an ad hominem attack. It probably infuriates us when people use the reciprocal argument that Obama's having studied Constitutional Law and owning a shiny degree negates our criticism of his unconstitutional policies.

Saying free stuff makes it seem so trivial. Wanting to be able to have life prolonging surgery has a different connotation than free stuff. I sympathize with the desire. I can't blame anyone for it. I think it's our job to explain that provision through the means currently supported constitutes theft, will decrease quality, and can not be continued indefinitely.

Maybe I read too much Whitman and Thoreau, but I tend to be optimistic regarding people and their motives. Glad that you're back and your personal junk is going well.