Social Democrats Thread #1

I don't understand how Feminism could be exhausted. The struggle for equality is a constant one. We still have a culture where people feel a woman is asking to be raped if she dresses a certain way. Depending on your exact notions of equality you can go even further. Women still earn less than men and see fewer promotions than men. It's hardly an exhausted movement unless you want to devalue these goals. 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: I don't understand how Feminism could be exhausted. The struggle for equality is a constant one. We still have a culture where people feel a woman is asking to be raped if she dresses a certain way. Depending on your exact notions of equality you can go even further. Women still earn less than men and see fewer promotions than men. It's hardly an exhausted movement unless you want to devalue these goals.

Agreed, but what is interesting about the perspective of successful females in the modern age e.g. Margaret Thatcher and say Madonna, is that they wanted to succeed on male terms playing the male game i.e. they cannot feel obligated  to 'level the playing field' with regards gender inequality

What about the logos of Social Democracy? The rose in hand thing is really uninspiring.

Roses for the working class, Roses for the ruling class, Roses for everyone!



Yet they support this:

Social fascism?

King of Loss wrote: Social fascism?

Bad Stalinist terminology.

However I like the term from 1914

Social Patriots (they all supported war effort of various countries except the Bolsheviks)



I am a bit on the left side of communism (the infantile side), but I guess I'll go along with everyone else and call them class collaborationist reformists instead of outright capitalist bullsh*t artists. As people were wont to point out, they had working class support until recently, and left wing groups used to enter the social democratic parties. Also, many such groups emerged from Social Democratic parties.

well another think:

Working class are stupid by some ways,mostly working class supports right-winger and they put them to "power" so its their own fault so to speak

Ancient Tree wrote: well another think: Working class are stupid by some ways,mostly working class supports right-winger and they put them to "power" so its their own fault so to speak

The working class used to be the core of the socialist/communist movement after it all collapsed and the intellectuals took over...

CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I don't understand how Feminism could be exhausted. The struggle for equality is a constant one. We still have a culture where people feel a woman is asking to be raped if she dresses a certain way. Depending on your exact notions of equality you can go even further. Women still earn less than men and see fewer promotions than men. It's hardly an exhausted movement unless you want to devalue these goals.  Are you actually serious? That may be the case in the USA, but I don't believe that Europe and even Brazil have that kind of problem, regarding income inequality, lack of promotions, etc.Some areas obviously favors men, specially those that involve risk-taking, leadership-demanding positions and other such cases, but that is explained by the different nature of both the male and female human beings and I find it quite natural that people who adventure themselves more in those areas earn more compared to their peers (a place most of times filled by a man).  However, in areas where this is not the case, men and women have the exact same place, income, respect, etc and in many women already outnumber men. Where I work/ I am an intern, there are already more women than men (I am the ONLY man, among 10 people who work and intern there, in the the judiciary registry office where I am an intern), there are more women in upper education (medicine, Law, architecture, journalism and many others) than men, etc. Maybe you have a dated picture of society, when women were actually oppressed, where unable to work, vote, drive and do mostly anything, but that is NOT how the world is today. Edit: even my mother, who was once an avid feminist, says that the movement has, for the most part (if not all of it), met its ends / has been depleded of meaning. As for the "begging to being raped", come on, everybody knows that dressing oneself in a certain way around certain neighborhoods is indeed inviting criminals to assault you.

So Europe and Brazil are the only two countries that matter when declaring a movement dead and useless? I think Afghanistan might be in need of a Feminist movement. Does that country count?

Ha are you seriously saying that a woman can't lead as effectively as a man? Leadership demanding positions. Come on man get out here with that nonsense. Even if you feel that the differences can be described due to the differences in the sexes (the smart argument to make would be that expected time missed due to pregnancy and raising children), that does not preclude women from wanting to bridge that income gap in spite of those differences.

Thanks for your anecdote, but the data seems to disagree with you - though I supposed with your nebulous definition of risk-taking and leadership demanding-positions you would just try to push that under the carpet.

Yeah and as to your bolded statement, the feminist movement might still have some work to do in Brazil it seems. Victims don't invite criminals. What a disgusting statement.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I don't understand how Feminism could be exhausted. The struggle for equality is a constant one. We still have a culture where people feel a woman is asking to be raped if she dresses a certain way. Depending on your exact notions of equality you can go even further. Women still earn less than men and see fewer promotions than men. It's hardly an exhausted movement unless you want to devalue these goals.  Are you actually serious? That may be the case in the USA, but I don't believe that Europe and even Brazil have that kind of problem, regarding income inequality, lack of promotions, etc.Some areas obviously favors men, specially those that involve risk-taking, leadership-demanding positions and other such cases, but that is explained by the different nature of both the male and female human beings and I find it quite natural that people who adventure themselves more in those areas earn more compared to their peers (a place most of times filled by a man).  However, in areas where this is not the case, men and women have the exact same place, income, respect, etc and in many women already outnumber men. Where I work/ I am an intern, there are already more women than men (I am the ONLY man, among 10 people who work and intern there, in the the judiciary registry office where I am an intern), there are more women in upper education (medicine, Law, architecture, journalism and many others) than men, etc. Maybe you have a dated picture of society, when women were actually oppressed, where unable to work, vote, drive and do mostly anything, but that is NOT how the world is today. Edit: even my mother, who was once an avid feminist, says that the movement has, for the most part (if not all of it), met its ends / has been depleded of meaning. As for the "begging to being raped", come on, everybody knows that dressing oneself in a certain way around certain neighborhoods is indeed inviting criminals to assault you.  So Europe and Brazil are the only two countries that matter when declaring a movement dead and useless? I think Afghanistan might be in need of a Feminist movement. Does that country count? Ha are you seriously saying that a woman can't lead as effectively as a man? Leadership demanding positions. Come on man get out here with that nonsense. Even if you feel that the differences can be described due to the differences in the sexes (the smart argument to make would be that expected time missed due to pregnancy and raising children), that does not preclude women from wanting to bridge that income gap in spite of those differences. Thanks for your anecdote, but the data seems to disagree with you - though I supposed with your nebulous definition of risk-taking and leadership demanding-positions you would just try to push that under the carpet. Yeah and as to your bolded statement, the feminist movement might still have some work to do in Brazil it seems. Victims don't invite criminals. What a disgusting statement.

Wow!  Let me just say, that in spite of my anti-feminist proclivities, that that is indeed an abhorrent statement.  Blaming the victim for being attacked is a rather twisted view of the world.  A woman should be able to walk down the street naked if she so chose without being molested, except perhaps by a cop citing her for indecent exposure.   Nothing gives a man the right to rape a woman.  Nothing.

My problem with feminism isn't that I don't think women are as smart as men.  Quite the contrary in fact, I believe they are every bit as smart as men, and when it comes to male-female relations, I'd say that women are actually the smarter of the two.  My problem with feminism is that they want to be seen both as equals to men (a belief I share) and as being victimized by evil men who take advantage of them.  This is seen most often in our very paternalistic family court system, which is something that the feminists fully support.  They want to be seen as victims of their husbands, boyfriends, one-night stands, etc. so they can get money from the supposed "wrong-doer".  This is where my biggest issue with feminism lies. 

I've also seen them take certain things too far.  Take sexual harassment laws.  No woman should be subject to losing her job for refusing to sleep with or date her boss, nor should she be subject to repeated unwanted advances by her boss or coworkers, inappropriate touching, etc.  But they've taken it too far.  Now, if a man in the company of other men says something which might offend a woman in earshot, the man is subject to termination.  This "hostile work environment" thing is a crock.  In short, I do not believe that feminism (especially the radical sort) is about female equality, but is rather about female supremacy, i.e. creating a world where everything is the way women want it.  At least here in the states.  Now, Afghanistan is a whole other matter.

CCVP wrote: Europe's a country? Oh man, talk about stereotypes.   Anyway, as if that didn't made everything you say worthless, I'll try and respond seriously.

What are you five years old? OMG you caught me I didn't know Europe wasn't a country.