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-Radioswim- 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 331
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 Posted: June 18 2012 at 16:16 |
 Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
quite. |
If you read my opinons before then you probably know I don't agree with this overrated stuff. In this case I adopting the axiom "If you can't beat them join them". I think if one doesn't like something at all then you simply cannot call that thing overrated. The fact is that you don't like it wich is an entirely diferent thing. I have come to the conclusion that you can only call something overrated if you are a fan of that artist or genre. For example, A Prog Metal fan can say that he thinks Symphony X is overrated. It would be nonsense for a fan of only seventies Prog to say that. Or, a Dream Theater fan could say that Images and Words is a bit overrated. |
well I guess as long as I can say it, Images and Words is criminally overrated 
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Dust in the Kitchen
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Eria Tarka
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 17 2011
Location: BC, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5856
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Posted: June 18 2012 at 22:38 |
Horizons wrote:
Oh i forgot this......
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I've never understood why this album is rated so high
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Eria Tarka
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 17 2011
Location: BC, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5856
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Posted: June 18 2012 at 22:42 |
mister nobody wrote:
Close to the Edge. It's a great album, I love it more and more with every listen, it's complex and interesting musically, but it just doesn't hit me as the best Yes album, let alone the best prog rock album. If we talk about the best Yes album, it has to be Relayer. |
Agree!
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Points: 1708
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 08:36 |
-Radioswim- wrote:
well I guess as long as I can say it, Images and Words is criminally overrated |
Oh yeah, the way the keyboardist plays a 15/8 structure with the guitarist playing 15/4 on top of it, and the drummer and bassist doing two separate patterns along with that...yeah, that's over-rated. Sure.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 08:58 |
I don't see anything you say that negates overrating.
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 901
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 09:15 |
what the f**k does that have to do with anything?
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 09:22 |
Snow Dog wrote:
I don't see anything you say that negates overrating. |
People love to say how over-rated DT are, but they don't understand anything about them and how complex their music are. When you start to take apart their music, it becomes astounding.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 09:24 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I don't see anything you say that negates overrating. |
People love to say how over-rated DT are, but they don't understand anything about them and how complex their music are. When you start to take apart their music, it becomes astounding.
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I know lots of complex music that is astoundingly bad.
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Sagichim
Special Collaborator
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Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 13:52 |
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Yeah, complex is not another word for beautiful.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Points: 10970
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 13:58 |
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^ Exactly my thought. I think what dtguitarfan meant was that their music is pretty brainy, entertaining, 'cause they really do things with math, as I understand.
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Points: 1708
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 14:31 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ Exactly my thought. I think what dtguitarfan meant was that their music is pretty brainy, entertaining, 'cause they really do things with math, as I understand. |
The music is brainy. But it's also executed with great skill, and is very beautiful - I think that the braininess just puts some people off so they can't get around it to see the beauty.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 14:36 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ Exactly my thought. I think what dtguitarfan meant was that their music is pretty brainy, entertaining, 'cause they really do things with math, as I understand. |
The music is brainy. But it's also executed with great skill, and is very beautiful - I think that the braininess just puts some people off so they can't get around it to see the beauty.
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I think you are talking rubbish.
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Zargasheth
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 27 2012
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 69
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 18:11 |
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"Overrated" is an entirely subjective concept. If people are arguing on this thread about whether or not something is overrated, something has been misunderstood.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Points: 10970
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 18:19 |
^ In that case it's been misunderstood millions of times. The pages on these threads have a limited size; it's not like everyone gets the thought of flipping back and noticing some interesting arguments, like this one:
Monadology wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Dean wrote:
...and that makes it overrated? |
...yes? What else if "overrated" but "everybody else likes it more than I do"?
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That's quite simple: "Everyone likes it more than it deserves." It is perfectly possible to a huge fan of something and admit that it is overrated, just as one can find an album unenjoyable while recognizing it merits the approval it has received. |
Edited by Dayvenkirq - June 19 2012 at 18:20
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Master of Time
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2012
Location: UT, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 18:33 |
Zargasheth wrote:
"Overrated" is an entirely subjective concept. If people are arguing on this thread about whether or not something is overrated, something has been misunderstood.
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I agree I don't think everyone is saying I don't like it as much as everyone else so I'm right and you're wrong as some seem to be suggesting. It is just an easier way of saying that everyone seems to like this but I don't really enjoy it. Some people may be saying that but I don't think the majority are so arguing it constantly is pointless.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 19:23 |
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^ The truth is that not everyone will stop arguing because of what's just been said.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 22:12 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ Exactly my thought. I think what dtguitarfan meant was that their music is pretty brainy, entertaining, 'cause they really do things with math, as I understand. |
The music is brainy. But it's also executed with great skill, and is very beautiful - I think that the braininess just puts some people off so they can't get around it to see the beauty.
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Yeah..I bet you think there's neither much skill nor much brain or math in the Discipline album of King Crimson, for just one example. You constantly allege an anti prog metal bias in this group but what you don't realize is some of these things may not sound so unprecedented to people who already listen to a lot of prog rock...or jazz, for that matter. Commendable, yes, and how far do we go with that.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 22:25 |
Epignosis wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I don't see anything you say that negates overrating. |
People love to say how over-rated DT are, but they don't understand anything about them and how complex their music are. When you start to take apart their music, it becomes astounding.
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I know lots of complex music that is astoundingly bad.
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I know lots of complex music and most none of it is Dream Theater.
As much as I love the band, complex? Their song structures in 90% of the cases are typical. Yes they can surely play the hell out of their instruments but complex music it is not. Difficult to play, probably (maybe surely). Complex? No.
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 22:31 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I don't see anything you say that negates overrating. |
People love to say how over-rated DT are, but they don't understand anything about them and how complex their music are. When you start to take apart their music, it becomes astounding.
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I know lots of complex music that is astoundingly bad.
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I know lots of complex music and most none of it is Dream Theater.
As much as I love the band, complex? Their song structures in 90% of the cases are typical. Yes they can surely play the hell out of their instruments but complex music it is not. Difficult to play, probably (maybe surely). Complex? No. |
There's more kinds of complexity than merely structural complexity. Geoff was illustrating an example of rhythmic complexity, and much of DT's music is quite rhythmically complex. Are there artists who go way beyond DT in complexity? Yes, but on the general spectrum of today's popular music, DT is extremely complex.
By the way, Geoff, what song does that particular section occur in?
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 19 2012 at 22:34 |
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I should've added harmony to structural complexity to make the point clearer. Rhythmic complexity (as you call it) is the only one that DT has a claim to...
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