Sheavy wrote: Textbook wrote:   WHERE'S GLENN BRANCA etc   Harmonium said he was accepted for Prog Related...?

No he didn't - Alex said Branca had been cleared for addition but didn't say where. As a member of the Prog Related team I can assure you he wasn't cleared by us, so it's not Prog Related and ProgFreak shows him as rejected by Psyche/Space and RIO/Avant.

Textbook wrote:   WHERE'S GLENN BRANCA etc

lazland wrote: Dean wrote: I think secondary genres is an over-complex way of album tagging - we just need to be able to tag each album with a list of genres/styles - MMA and JMA have this and while I don't know "how" they do it, it does seem to work, so I see no reason not to do it here and no reason why we need to do it differently. I have to admit, I haven't been on either for a long time, but I just went onto MMA to have a look, and chose Metallica as an example, and the albums are listed in their respective sub-genres perfectly well, and it also looks very good. Have MMA & JMA been able to do this because they are relatively new sites and are able, so to speak, to do this afresh, whereas we would have to go back over god knows how many albums? Whether it is your's or Ivan's suggestion (and both are very good, although I tend towards yours as it is, IMO, easier), I do think bit is about time we started to get a move on with changing things.

We don't need to go back over 36,819 albums - they would all default to the home subgenre and in most cases be pretty near right ... if 5% needed "fixing" that would only be 2000 albums - un morceau de gâteau!

Dean wrote: I think secondary genres is an over-complex way of album tagging - we just need to be able to tag each album with a list of genres/styles - MMA and JMA have this and while I don't know "how" they do it, it does seem to work, so I see no reason not to do it here and no reason why we need to do it differently.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: lazland wrote:   So, to go on what you said in a previous post elsewhere, for example, Genesis would have SEBTP, Foxtrot & etc tagged as symphonic, whilst Abacab would be prog-related. You know I don't agree with you regarding Genesis, but I state the above for illustrative purposes. By the contrary, I offered to start a task, adding secondary genres to band's albums. They would stay in Symphonic, be in correlative order by bands only that some albums would have a secondary tag bellow the Symphonic one . The Symphonic Team was ready to do that, but we needed a small extra slot in the band pages, it would look like this: FOXTROT Genesis  •  Symphonic Prog Secondary Genres: ------------- In this case, no secondary genre is required, because the album is mainly Symphonic INVISIBLE TOUCH Genesis  •  Symphonic Prog Secondary genres: Crossover - POP In this case a second tag as shown could be required as shown. We never received the green light, and we were willing to do this as a team, this wouldn't affect the Crossover Team because the album will remain with all Genesis albums in Symphonic. But believe me, even if we did this, people would protest Why Crossover if it's pure Pop? Why Pop if it's Prog? Why not Eclectic? People will always be ready to protest (Specially the ones who never did anything for PA - not talking about any member in particular, just about guys who come, make a rating without a review and still protest), but I think this would help and could be done by our team in Symphonic as a test. Iván

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Logan wrote: Textbook wrote: I think the site realised quite some time ago that albums, not artists, should be sorted by genre but by then it was already such a monumental task to go back and individually label every single album, that everyone knew it would never be done. What other sites got when tagging special band oriented genres is: [quote=GEPR] Gentle Giant Influenced Gentle Giant were an island unto themselves and created a startlingly complex music that involved more elements than I have time to describe here. This include bands heavily influenced by them. Oldfield Progressive I don't know what else to call this type of music since it was so innovative. Mike Oldfield, an incredible musician and composer created a form of music that combined everything form hard rock to Celtic music and did it with such style and verve that it actually became popular. Usually written like Symphonic prog and was also quite bombastic yet more sensible. Bands Mike Oldfield, Jean-Pascal Boffo, Sung Woo Lee, etc. Zappa Music If you listen to Frank Zappa, you know what I mean. Not typically quoted as being "progressive" but deserves to be included here maybe more than some of these others. Quite individual. Bands Mothers of Invention/Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Floh De Cologne, etc. http://www.gepr.net/gepr_styles.html   They had to step back and create another set of genres, because this was chaotic Now imagine the chaos if we were to do it band by band. Iván

"sophisticated, unconventional and adventurous rock music with thought provoking subject matter does not Progressive Rock make."

I think the site realised quite some time ago that albums, not artists, should be sorted by genre but by then it was already such a monumental task to go back and individually label every single album, that everyone knew it would never be done.

^ I agree that Indo-Prog should stay.  In my case I meant that if one had sub-sub "genre" categories, it would be possible to place Indo-Prog generally under Prog Folk, as Prog Folk can encompass "world or ethnic music".  Pelt is terrific, by the way.  All are great that you mentioned, but I haven't any Pelt albums and must remedy that.  It's a shame that so few seem into the music there as there is fantastic music in that category.

infocat wrote: One person's opinion.  The following sub-genres should be axed; or made into sub-sub-genres.  I foresee the following: RIO/Avant-Prog - Rename Avant Prog.  RIO is a sub-sub-genre. Krautrock - Merge mostly into Psychedelic/Space Rock; maybe some Avant Prog. Rock Progressivo Italiano - Merge mostly into Symphonic Prog. Zeuhl - Merge mostly into Avant Prog. Canterbury Scene - Split out as appropriate!  This was never really a genre.  As the name indicates, it was a "scene". Indo-Prog/Raga Rock - Prog Folk?  I have no idea... Neo-Prog - Merge into Symphonic Prog and some Crossover Prog. Interestingly enough I think having the three metal groups split as they are is appropriate. All that being said, I would be all for Art Rock for bands/artists like Kate Bush, Tori Amos, maybe Radiohead, etc.

I rather like the idea of creating sub-categories under a category name, but could be problematic (RIO and Avant Prog generally and much Crossover could, for instance, be under the greater category Eclectic Prog, but it would present problems.  Indo-Prog could be under Prog-Folk.  I'd rather albums in it be tagged, say, Indo Prog, Prog Folk, and Psych). You mention Canterbury Scene as not really being a genre, but on can say the same of R.I.O. being a movement, though it has come to represent a broader meaning.  And Henry Cow  is linked to the Canterbury Scene (before RIO was inaugurated, I would say that Henry Cow's early albums were Canterbury Scene sounding).  There is style that one can associate with Canterbury Scene.   While I would still keep the main categorical heading for the bands, ideally this site would have album tagging and he ability to search for albums using multiple category tags (the ones we have plus some others such as Chamber Rock).  I'm not keen on calling the categories sub-genres.  Instead I would rename it Categories.  Some categorical names were made-up for organisational purposes.  I wouldn't call Eclectic, for instance, a sub-genre, but it is a useful category. 

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: ... Also have strong doubts about Zeuhl, that's a one band genre being that IMO no Zeuhl band sounds remotely as Magma....

Funny you mention that since I read another post from today that said:

Moshkito wrote: ]Fascinating to say the least, but I have to admit that no other "zeuhl" music group has ever caught my fancy ... somehow too many of them just did not sound original at all, and mostly were like copies for me. I'll just have to get zeuhl'd over I guess!

Although Magma developed the term Zeuhl, I don't think that they need sound very much like Magma to sound Zeuhl.  Lots of them sound at least remotely like Magma to me.  I recognise the Zeuhl sound (a lot of from the bass guitar style) when I hear it and find the categorisation useful.  It's also a scene, in a sense, with lots of interlocking musicians (two major scenes being From france originally and later the Japanese ones).  Magma and Zao are the two main ones for me from France.