Dream Theater

dtguitarfan wrote: rogerthat wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: tamijo wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Also, are you a musician?  It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument.  If you do...try to play one of their songs.  Go ahead, I dare ya. That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it. Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. This is a perfectly valid argument - I am not saying you have to be able to play an instrument to understand how hard it is to play a song, or how complex it is, etc., I said "it's HARDER to understand."  Sure, music is about more than the handycraft of performing it - that's why I AM crazy about DT but not so much about Behond the Arctopus.  If I ONLY cared about how hard it is to perform a song, my favorite band would be Behold the Arctopus or something crazy like that.  But DT combines talent of Olympic proportions with good song writing.  And I for one would rather listen to musicians that are better than I could ever hope to be than an artist whose songs I could learn in a week easily.  For the same reason, I like to watch movies with characters that are greater than I could ever possibly be - characters that are inhumanly amazing, like Thor, Captain America, etc. You are entitled to like music for whatever reasons may resonate with you.  But if we follow this logic, it is as if to say musicians in general would care more about technical difficulty than songwriting skill and that is certainly not true.  What you mean is that PERFORMERS would possibly go crazy about DT for their technical skills.   By the by, there are keyboardists who do more interesting things, technically, than Rudess and also lay down a good groove.  Barbara Dennerlein can work bass pedals with an insanely supple leg as she plays the organ with her hands.  And how about Oscar Peterson's left hand work...it is also very interesting and educative.  Rudess stands out only because his level is unusual in rock/metal.  And how about Michael Hedges work on the acoustic     .  Have you read all my posts in this thread?  Ok, let me sum up: - Guy says "I don't understand why people go so crazy about DT" - I explained it with the logic that people who play musical instruments understand how difficult it is to play the music DT plays. - Another guy says "this is an invalid argument" - I say it's a perfectly valid argument What's unclear there?  I even explained at one point that if it were ONLY about musical proficiency I'd probably be more of a fan for a crazily technical band like Behold the Arctopus.  And I never said EVERYONE who understands the technical difficulty of DT's music MUST love them, I explained that this is one of the reasons why fans of DT are so "crazy" over them.

Actually you did.  You said anybody who plays Chopin would surely respect what DT did.  I am just saying that is not EVERY musician's goal or not what fascinates all of them.  It might apply to you and it is just as valid as any other reason to like music. 

I think musicians definitely have more of a tendency to appreciate DT's style, but I do not play a thing and have been "going crazy" over Dream Theater's music for about 20 years now.  Easily a top 5 all-time band for me.  

Their technicality is a minus for me, it's not really that interesting to hear them for some reason. Maybe it's because of the music it's being used it, or their overall style. All i know is after a while they become stale to me, and just bore me out of my mind.

..."What do you mean Bach's got no soul"?......

I disagree with the argument that Dream Theater is bad because it lacks emotion. I think it's DT's failed and tasteless attempt to make their music have slow emotional bits makes them bad. They would be great as a pure tech metal band

Snow Dog wrote:    Has Bach got soul?

dtguitarfan wrote: rogerthat wrote: Actually you did.  You said anybody who plays Chopin would surely respect what DT did. Notice I said RESPECT, not LOVE.  Two different things.  Ok, I'll update my statement - everyone who can and does play Chopin SHOULD BE ABLE TO respect what DT do, and if they can't respect this: then A) They aren't a very good musician and thus can't understand the difficulty, or B) They are such an amazing musician that they've forgotten how much work it took to get to where they are. Basically, if I ever met an musician who heard what I posted above and said "I have no respect for that" I'd say to them "then play it."

This strikes me as a rather shallow argument e.g. what point would there be to music if it could only communicate how difficult it is to play? (I admire the accuracy of a trained speed typist buy I don't consider it art)

However, it seems clear from the depth of feeling generated by this band that their fans get a lot more than just auto erotic pyrotechnics from DT's music. It's my loss I guess.

Snow Dog wrote: ^I already predicted that answer. But I don't hear it.

Honestly I believe all DT members (Except LaBie) are virtuoso musicians, especially Myung.

dtguitarfan wrote: A) They aren't a very good musician and thus can't understand the difficulty, or B) They are such an amazing musician that they've forgotten how much work it took to get to where they are.

I answered that before.  What does difficulty have to do with it anyway.   Music is not a sport though it seems from your earlier argument that you'd like some music to be Olympian as well.

And you said earlier you respect something like DT which takes a lot to learn rather than something that takes just a week to learn.  My friend writes and play prog rock/metal and, obviously, listens to prominent prog metal bands like DT.  And he would take Beatles and Pink Floyd over them.  How long does it take to write something like Echoes, if at all one can...go figure.

So I can vouchsafe that even if not every musician would disparage DT;s technical ability, they certainly wouldn't subscribe to the corollary that you proposed. 


Edited by rogerthat - May 06 2012 at 19:14