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HarbouringTheSoul 
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Joined: May 21 2010
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Points: 1199
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 Posted: May 05 2012 at 16:18 |
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How can you hate an album that doesn't get 1 star from you?
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Catcher10
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Posted: May 05 2012 at 16:26 |
 JJLehto wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Train of Thought is by far NOT their weakest album.... |
I'd agree, since it's my favorite DT album
What's weird is I used to love Octavarium, now it's one of my least favorites.
I used to hate Systematic Chaos but now it's not bad.
I still do hate BC&SL but not as much as I used to (originally got 1 star from me!)
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I think you are headed down the path of fanboyism......I will pray for you 
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zumacraig
Forum Senior Member
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Points: 1301
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Posted: May 05 2012 at 17:26 |
Dellinger wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
Loved them when I discovered them with Images and Words at the time it came out, it was a revolution and derserved all the hype. Never fancied much When Dream and Day Unite even if it contained the seeds of what it was to come.
Then I loved Awake and A Change of Seasons, much less Falling Into Infinity, and with Metropolis Pt 2 they became again on my top and that stayed with Six Degrees.
After that it has been a bit of a mixed feeling, I have all their albums but none later than Six Degrees has really ticked all the right boxes. Possibly it is also because I lost a bit interest in prog-metal as such.
Anyway I respect them a lot and I still went to see them live in the Black Clouds tour, but they did not convince me anymore.
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Hey, I understand where you're coming from, man. I'm sorry they haven't kept your attention. To me, they won me over before that, and because I was won over I stuck it out with them, and was able to take each album as it is and say "well, I absolutely LOVE these tracks, and even though I don't appreciate the other tracks on this album, just the fact that I LOVE these other tracks makes it a better album than a LOT of other ones in my collection." I'm the same way with a lot of bands - take Rush for example. I have all their albums, but I wish they were making albums like in the days of Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Hemispheres, etc. But even though each album hasn't lived up to those, they still have plenty of tracks on each album they've made since that I love, so...yep, fanboy here. But you know what, it's more fun to be a fanboy than dissatisfied all the time.  |
I really love DT too, it is among my favourite bands, with Pink Floyd and Yes. However, unlike the other two bands, there is no DT album that I would call a Masterpiece, that I can say I love from beginning to end, and that's a bit frustrating. However, there are always many songs on each album that I really love and wouldn't do without them, and that's why I have all of their albums. Now, a while ago I was checking how many minutes from each album I have on my Ipod, and I discovered that almost all of the albums are represented by at least 40 min of music, which means that if they had released vinyl long albums with just the songs that I liked, they would all be masterpieces in my mind. |
i agree about album lengths. i miss the days of 20-25min per album side. bands were forced to put the best stuff. i wish bands would do that now and put the 'extra' stuff on a bonus disc or something. or make then doubles. most prog cds these days would actually be double or triples on vinyl. on my ipod, i break cds up in album sides. it makes for an 'easier' listening experience. length and the loudness wars make it pretty difficult to get through full CDs these days. BC&SL comes to mind.
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dtguitarfan
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Posted: May 05 2012 at 17:45 |
JJLehto wrote:
It just boggles my mind how crazy people get over them.
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Have you seen them live? If not, then you never will....  Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
Edited by dtguitarfan - May 05 2012 at 17:58
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
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Points: 1455
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Posted: May 05 2012 at 23:31 |
The Truth wrote:
I'm a fan of the latest record, best thing since Images & Words.
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I would say best thing since "Awake" myself...
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darkshade
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 00:20 |
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I don't understand the lack of excitement around ADTOE. I think it's a great album, and is much better than their last 4 albums overall, as far as flow and precision goes. Sure, there are songs from ToT thru BC&SL that are better than anything on ADTOE, but as an album, it's better. Also, the parts all work with each other and the transitions are much smoother. I started to notice rough transitions on BC&SL, even though I love the album, but it had some moments where I was like "well, that could have been handled better". Does anyone know what I mean?
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Jbird
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Joined: June 20 2011
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Points: 338
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 00:53 |
I've been a fan since I&W.
To me, they have 2 'great' albums, I&W and SFOM. And a few that fall just short of great, Awake, ADTOE both being awfully close. Most bands don't even have that many really good albums, and none of Dream Theater's albums are stinkers by any means...again, something a lot of bands can't say.
I've seen them live 5 times (5 different tours) and they've been very good to amazing each time. No 'off' nights that I've seen, so far.
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tamijo
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Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Points: 4287
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 01:14 |
The only song i know enough to actualy like with DT, is Wither.
Its a pretty standart balland, but I think its great.
Edited by tamijo - May 06 2012 at 01:16
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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tamijo
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Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 01:25 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 01:39 |
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. |
Playing an instrument with great skills or amazing speed is not enough for me.
I care more about the music they play.
BTW: I play drums and studied piano for years and play a bit of vguitar, I can't play like any DT member, seen them alive, but still can't stand more than 2 minutes of their music.
BTW: I can't play like Fripp or any of the Schulman brothers, but still i can't resist most of King Crimson or Gentle Giant
But I can understand why some people like them.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 06 2012 at 01:41
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 03:42 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Have you seen them live? If not, then you never will....
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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I won't call myself a singer because it's not something I do for a living or am very good at, but I can sing and I am most definitely not crazy about LaBrie's singing. I specifically felt the need to mention this because a lot of DT fans talk up his singing all the time and I cannot understand how anybody who sings would claim in all seriousness that he is the best or something like that.
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dtguitarfan
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Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 06:49 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 07:13 |
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dtguitarfan
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:18 |
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. |
This is a perfectly valid argument - I am not saying you have to be able to play an instrument to understand how hard it is to play a song, or how complex it is, etc., I said "it's HARDER to understand." Sure, music is about more than the handycraft of performing it - that's why I AM crazy about DT but not so much about Behond the Arctopus. If I ONLY cared about how hard it is to perform a song, my favorite band would be Behold the Arctopus or something crazy like that. But DT combines talent of Olympic proportions with good song writing. And I for one would rather listen to musicians that are better than I could ever hope to be than an artist whose songs I could learn in a week easily. For the same reason, I like to watch movies with characters that are greater than I could ever possibly be - characters that are inhumanly amazing, like Thor, Captain America, etc.
Edited by dtguitarfan - May 06 2012 at 09:21
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Points: 4287
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:25 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. |
This is a perfectly valid argument - I am not saying you have to be able to play an instrument to understand how hard it is to play a song, or how complex it is, etc., I said "it's HARDER to understand." Sure, music is about more than the handycraft of performing it - that's why I AM crazy about DT but not so much about Behond the Arctopus. If I ONLY cared about how hard it is to perform a song, my favorite band would be Behold the Arctopus or something crazy like that. But DT combines talent of Olympic proportions with good song writing. And I for one would rather listen to musicians that are better than I could ever hope to be than an artist whose songs I could learn in a week easily. For the same reason, I like to watch movies with characters that are greater than I could ever possibly be - characters that are inhumanly amazing, like Thor, Captain America, etc.
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I still belive its beside the point.
Think of all those skilled people playing chopin every day, im not sure that will make them love prog. or DT
Its about taste, no more no less.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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dtguitarfan
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Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Points: 1708
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:30 |
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. |
This is a perfectly valid argument - I am not saying you have to be able to play an instrument to understand how hard it is to play a song, or how complex it is, etc., I said "it's HARDER to understand." Sure, music is about more than the handycraft of performing it - that's why I AM crazy about DT but not so much about Behond the Arctopus. If I ONLY cared about how hard it is to perform a song, my favorite band would be Behold the Arctopus or something crazy like that. But DT combines talent of Olympic proportions with good song writing. And I for one would rather listen to musicians that are better than I could ever hope to be than an artist whose songs I could learn in a week easily. For the same reason, I like to watch movies with characters that are greater than I could ever possibly be - characters that are inhumanly amazing, like Thor, Captain America, etc.
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I still belive its beside the point.
Think of all those skilled people playing chopin every day, im not sure that will make them love prog. or DT
Its about taste, no more no less. |
Sure. But you don't have to love them to respect them, and I firmly believe that anyone who plays Chopin would be able to hear how difficult DT's music is, and appreciate it at least for that aspect. The original argument was "I don't see why people go so crazy over Dream Theater" so I explained it with a perfectly valid argument - it's why I personally go so crazy about them.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:34 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. |
This is a perfectly valid argument - I am not saying you have to be able to play an instrument to understand how hard it is to play a song, or how complex it is, etc., I said "it's HARDER to understand." Sure, music is about more than the handycraft of performing it - that's why I AM crazy about DT but not so much about Behond the Arctopus. If I ONLY cared about how hard it is to perform a song, my favorite band would be Behold the Arctopus or something crazy like that. But DT combines talent of Olympic proportions with good song writing. And I for one would rather listen to musicians that are better than I could ever hope to be than an artist whose songs I could learn in a week easily. For the same reason, I like to watch movies with characters that are greater than I could ever possibly be - characters that are inhumanly amazing, like Thor, Captain America, etc.
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You are entitled to like music for whatever reasons may resonate with you. But if we follow this logic, it is as if to say musicians in general would care more about technical difficulty than songwriting skill and that is certainly not true. What you mean is that PERFORMERS would possibly go crazy about DT for their technical skills. By the by, there are keyboardists who do more interesting things, technically, than Rudess and also lay down a good groove. Barbara Dennerlein can work bass pedals with an insanely supple leg as she plays the organ with her hands. And how about Oscar Peterson's left hand work...it is also very interesting and educative. Rudess stands out only because his level is unusual in rock/metal. And how about Michael Hedges work on the acoustic .
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:38 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Sure. But you don't have to love them to respect them, and I firmly believe that anyone who plays Chopin would be able to hear how difficult DT's music is, and appreciate it at least for that aspect. The original argument was "I don't see why people go so crazy over Dream Theater" so I explained it with a perfectly valid argument - it's why I personally go so crazy about them.
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I am sorry but those again are only a reflection of your tastes and your priorities in music, you are generalizing. Christina Aguilera can sing insane riffs...and absolutely murder a song beyond any connection with its original essence. I absolutely dislike her singing, unconditionally. I am not going to claim she can't sing (and I don't think even 'non musicians' claim Petrucci or Rudess can't play) but I don't respect what she does either. It is horrible, to me. I don't believe music is about what is more or less difficult. If it is very impactful, then it's a bonus if it is also difficult and musicians only learn to perform difficult things so that they don't restrict their options. If you write a great part, you want to also be able to play it.
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dtguitarfan
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Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Points: 1708
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:38 |
rogerthat wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
tamijo wrote:
dtguitarfan wrote:
Also, are you a musician? It's harder to understand why people go crazy over DT if you don't actually play an instrument. If you do...try to play one of their songs. Go ahead, I dare ya.
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That is not a valid argument, there is no evidence that you have to be able to play a song, to understand it.
Music is about so much more than just the handycraft of preforming it. |
This is a perfectly valid argument - I am not saying you have to be able to play an instrument to understand how hard it is to play a song, or how complex it is, etc., I said "it's HARDER to understand." Sure, music is about more than the handycraft of performing it - that's why I AM crazy about DT but not so much about Behond the Arctopus. If I ONLY cared about how hard it is to perform a song, my favorite band would be Behold the Arctopus or something crazy like that. But DT combines talent of Olympic proportions with good song writing. And I for one would rather listen to musicians that are better than I could ever hope to be than an artist whose songs I could learn in a week easily. For the same reason, I like to watch movies with characters that are greater than I could ever possibly be - characters that are inhumanly amazing, like Thor, Captain America, etc.
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You are entitled to like music for whatever reasons may resonate with you. But if we follow this logic, it is as if to say musicians in general would care more about technical difficulty than songwriting skill and that is certainly not true. What you mean is that PERFORMERS would possibly go crazy about DT for their technical skills. By the by, there are keyboardists who do more interesting things, technically, than Rudess and also lay down a good groove. Barbara Dennerlein can work bass pedals with an insanely supple leg as she plays the organ with her hands. And how about Oscar Peterson's left hand work...it is also very interesting and educative. Rudess stands out only because his level is unusual in rock/metal. And how about Michael Hedges work on the acoustic .
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Have you read all my posts in this thread? Ok, let me sum up: - Guy says "I don't understand why people go so crazy about DT" - I explained it with the logic that people who play musical instruments understand how difficult it is to play the music DT plays. - Another guy says "this is an invalid argument" - I say it's a perfectly valid argument What's unclear there? I even explained at one point that if it were ONLY about musical proficiency I'd probably be more of a fan for a crazily technical band like Behold the Arctopus. And I never said EVERYONE who understands the technical difficulty of DT's music MUST love them, I explained that this is one of the reasons why fans of DT are so "crazy" over them.
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darkshade
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Posted: May 06 2012 at 09:51 |
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You're both making great points, I think you're both just arguing over 2 somewhat different things.
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