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Flower Kings Appreciation Thread |
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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good point about wakeman. he became a complete cheese ball beginning with tormato. he just ruined the keys to ascension stuff, as far as i'm concerned. i still like it though and he does used the right sounds here and there. he def is one of the casualties of the 80s synth revolution.
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infandous ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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Sorry, I was trying to make it more readable, and messed up the quoting. |
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dennismoore ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: April 19 2011 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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I am responding to infandous, but Zuma put it best so I am quoting him about Rick's cheesy sounds.
Exactly, on the cheese ball sounds, but I was talkin bout somethin different. The actual overmodulation of the
settings(A-D-S-R envelopes for keyboardists out there...) A technique that adjusted too far makes one note indistinguishable from another. T. Bodin does it with TFK. Igor did it with YES live, most modern keyboards do it
as I guess it is their "spin" or particular taste. The problem is that it makes the notes hard to hear, it all can be a run-on
or a bunch or mush.
Yes, Wakeman has been the king of cheese, actually forever. I love the guy dearly and will defend his playing to the death, but even listen to Yessongs, on YIND the organ is thin & cheesy. Compare Rick's sounds to the keyboardists of that period. Emerson or Eddie Jobson, those cats had some major tone goin on.
Wakeman since Tormato has been cheesy and too digital. having read several biographies on Rick he has gone bankrupt so many times, my guess whould be that he plays the keyboards that any keyboard maker will give him.
His keys on ABW&H were probably the worst I have ever heard on a prog record. Digital, and that is not a good thing and thin sounding. Just awful.
But at least you could always hear the notes clearly on what Wakeman played, and...
Those Birotron things he toured with in 1978 & 1979, gave Future Times & Silent Wings a very fresh and distincitive
sound. Those Birotrons actually sounded awesome in concert. ![]() Edited by dennismoore - April 04 2012 at 12:26 |
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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good points about wakemen. ABWH would have been a great album if not for the electric drums and cheese keys. i think i finally get what your saying about over modulation. bodin def does this, but i think he does it intentionally. he's more atmospheric than 'note' oriented. what about tony banks? his keys were always clean, but through the years become increasingly weak sounding to the point where he seems nonexistent on the 2007 live disc.
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infandous ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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I see what you are saying Dennis, and it's probably true. I don't really notice it on FK stuff, but as zumacraig says, Tomas is more an atmosphere guy, not a notes guy. I talked to Jonas at Rosfest back in 2005 about this, and Jonas basically said that Tomas is not a virtuoso type player, not a technical wizard, but a feel and sounds player. Jonas felt his sound choices were genius and that he was better at that than anyone else Jonas knew. I'll take his word over yours
![]() ![]() Edited by infandous - April 06 2012 at 11:12 |
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dennismoore ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: April 19 2011 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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@Zuma, yes, exactly. ABW&H could have been monstrously good with acoustic drums and pro-level keyboards, and yes what Tony Banks devolved to on Invisible Touch and later can only be described as the biggest waste of talent, since uh, Phil Collins decided to record 3 minute Motown tunes.... but lamentably I now need to deal with this Chicken Farm Song hatin dude, ok, where were we.... oh... Infandous! yoo hoo!
Ok, @infandous:
I do think you are half-reading Jonas' quote. As I agree with Jonas(great minds do think alike
![]() not lacking whatsoever technically, and I think Jonas was shooting some depricating humor at his friend Tomas' way...
All along I have been thinking about the two keyboard pieces on Stardust, side 2. The delicate grand piano piece and powerful & ballsy pipe organ ditty. They are about as emotional and inspiring as I have heard. The two recordings clearly show Tomas' brilliance. When a keyboardist records synthesizers a whole different dynamic takes place, and it is so easy to get lost in over doing it electronically. I admire greatly Tommy B, that is why I actually wanna HEAR what he is playing. The live DVD that has Garden Of Dreams is priceless to me as it is TFK AND it is recorded as good as can be in full hi-fi glory, BUT, when it comes to that great synth solo Thomas has the keys way overmodulated so one can not actually hear what the lad is doing!
Is it so wrong to want to actually hear what one of your favorite artists is playing???
![]() Edited by dennismoore - April 06 2012 at 14:56 |
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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i like Lalle Larson's key sound. he really enhances the entire band sound and lays low. but when a solo comes, he just rips it. he also basically has 3 sounds; organ, piano and sawtooth synth. one thing i wish tfk and the like did was more straight ahead synth solos that are kind of longish. like the the solo on serious dreamers. morse does more melodic synth stuff, but it's never long enough for my ears. hell. i could listen to vintage (correctly modulated:) synth keys and pedals all day long! one of the things i like about early marillion is the pedals and the spacious production.
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Nov ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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UK DATE FOR THE FLOWER KINGS!! Sunday 23 September 2012 The Flower Kings The Picturedrome, Holmfirth I think this is to be confirmed and it's all I know at the moment. |
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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Okay. How about your one favorite song from each album. I'll start:
The Flower King-The Flower King BitWoA-Big Puzzle Retropolis-Retropolis Stardust We Are-Stardust We Are Flower Power-Psychadelic Postcard Space Revolver-I Am The Sun part 1 Rainmaker-Last Minute On Earth (favorite TFK tune of all time) Unfold The Future-Truth Will Set You Free Adam and Eve-Love Supreme Paradox Hotel-Minor Giant Steps Sum of No Evil-One More Time Banks of Eden-? Edited by zumacraig - April 08 2012 at 08:51 |
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dennismoore ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: April 19 2011 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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Ok, here's my choices: The Flower King - I had no choice but to buy it as an import for 30.00. To this day I feel ripped off. None of the music keeps my attention. Don't get your panties in a bunch, this is just my impression. Repeated listens just piss me off more and make we wanna call Gloria Allred and sue somebody. ![]() Back in the World of Adventures - World of Adventures (This is where TFK seem to get their individuality, to me making complicated music doesn't mean you will have an interesting song(like the prior CD). This stuff is complex but has some "mojo workin". ![]() Retropolis - There Is More To This World Really nice non 4/4 ditty but with a fun groove. Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are Perhaps TFK's own CTTE type signature epic. Pure prog perfection. ![]() Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams (@zumacraig: after you put down the crack pipe you may wanna reconsider your choice. ![]() ![]() ![]() Space Revolver - Uh you should have seen this cumin..... The Chicken Farmer Song! ![]() Rainmaker - Last Minute On Earth, best of a lower echelon of tunes.. Unfold The Future - Truth Will Set You Free. TFK played this live when I saw them, it has much more energy live. ![]() Adam and Eve - No favorite, I do not support bestiality. ![]() Paradox Hotel - Still hasn't grabbed me yet. Sounds too much like Roine is trying to preach at me. I don't like paying $$$ to get a lecture on morality. PH seems preachy. If I want somebody to take my $$$ and give me a sermon, I will go back to mass & listen to the Monsignor. Do you guys have any idea how much I gave that guy already??? Sum of No Evil - I didn't buy this one.. I am excited for the new record, after a few years perhaps TFK can focus on what got them there and not try to redefine the band with heavy metal singers. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Edited by dennismoore - April 09 2012 at 19:00 |
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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i knew i'd get flack for my Flower Power choice. of course i like it, but if i had to choose one tune from that album, it'd be psychedelic postcard.
dennis, i'm so surprised to see your pick for space revolver!
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Nov ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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The Flower King - Humanizzimo BitWoA - Big Puzzle
Retropolis - The Road Back Home Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams Space Revolver - I Am The Sun, part 2 Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers Unfold The Future - The Truth Will Set You Free Adam and Eve - Driver's Seat Paradox Hotel - Monsters & Men Sum of No Evil - The River Banks of Eden - Pillars Of Creation |
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dennismoore ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: April 19 2011 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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Hey Zuma, Well of Space Revolver, I Am The Sun, is not really a song, it is 2 songs or one part A and another part B or some say it is actually Part I and the rest is Part II(The album actually sez this...) And then when you consider the other fine songs the choice gets even more confusing. So a clear winner and end to all this madness would be to select, as best: The Chicken Farmer Song How can you argue with that logic ??? ![]() Now.... can you please explain how psychedelic postcard gets chosen over Garden Of Dreams? |
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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Nov, have you seen a track list for Banks of Eden? !!!!
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Nov ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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No, sorry......... I just made up a mythical Flower Kings song to see who would bite ![]() Pathetic, I know , but strangely satisfying Apologies for any embarrassment caused........ (My favourite track on Banks of Eden is actually 'Paradise Rebels') ![]() |
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Roland113 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3843 |
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![]() . . . and for the record, I find "Garden of Dreams" to be too much. My preference on that album is "IKEA by Night".
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dennismoore ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: April 19 2011 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 877 |
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Me three,
That is why I edited it for my recreational uses. I think I cut it down about 10 minutes of it.
Check out my version on the centerfold card I posted in this thread a few pages back. I cut out that "funeral dirge"
part as well as some needless doodling.
![]() @Roland113: Hey Cowboy! Where is your list??? Edited by dennismoore - April 09 2012 at 08:05 |
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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no worries at all! making up TFK song titles is fun. how about "Cosmic Goddess", a bodin instrumental:)
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zumacraig ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1301 |
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roland, i'm the same way about flower power. it's really hard to pay attention all the way through. it's great, but not my ultimate favorite from that album. ikea is a nice pick.
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Roland113 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3843 |
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My list, it's on page 56, but here's a copy of it. Back in the World of Adventures - Big Puzzle
Retropolis - Flora Majora Stardust We Are - Just this Once Flower Power - IKEA by Night Space Revolver - I Am The Sun Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers Unfold The Future - Grand Old World Adam and Eve - Adam and Eve Paradox Hotel - End on a High Note (with Minor Giant Steps a very close second) Sum of No Evil - One More Time Yeah, I was curious about the insert, why is the woman on a commode? |
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