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Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

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zumacraig View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2012 at 14:33
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

 
DM-i love Bodin's stuff on Stardust too.  the really warm keys of Room with a view is my favorite.  he also incorporates the main stardust theme in all of them too.  man, i'd love this new album to open up with a 10min bodin church organ jam!  
 
Hey Zuma, Smile
 
That is all I am trying to say about Bodin's solo stuff...
 
Songs like "Room with a View" are what propell me into my hi-def or 5.1 rant. Music such as that is recorded so
well,you are simply not getting(at all) what the musician is communicating to you if you are on computer speakers
or a cheapish system.
 
The organ sound on Room with a view is transcendent with a half-decent sound system.  dare I say it is God-Like,
to say it is inspirational is an understatemt.  The grand piano piece he plays on that side of Stardust is breathtaking as
well.  That is the Bodin I wish he would do more of on his solo records.  Synths are fine, but I dare say the prior generation of Emerson-Wakeman-Banks did a much better job of balance with different keyboards.  Curent prog keyboardists rely too heavily on effects and over modulation.  At least if you want to hear the notes an artist is playing and what he has composed.  Obviously this is personal preference. But I humbly say that Emerson or Wakeman are so revered becasue of the actual notes they played and the music that was conveyed from the clarity of the keys.



Well, I like synthesizers up to a point.  A person that always drove me crazy was Chic Corea.......he would play an amazing solo, but you had to get past the horrid synth sound he chose to play it with.  Yet with Miles Davis, he played only Fender Rhodes and it sounded fantastic!  When I heard his acoustic band I was blown away by how good the guy sounds on just plain old piano.

So yeah, I think that Tomas sometimes get's a bit carried away with the weird or goofy sounds, especially on his instrumental only solo albums.  That's why I like I AM and You Are so much, because he mostly sticks to the classics (and the Flower Kings albums, of course).  He really does know how to use different sound to good effect though, for atmosphere, and does it all the time on FK albums.

I will say though, that part of what makes prog rock music great is not always the actual notes played, but also the sound of them (this is particularly true for guitar........Roine uses effects quite well to create atmosphere, which I suspect some people don't realize sometimes is a guitar they are hearing and think it's a keyboard).

Anyway, there is definitely a fine line between cutting edge and cheesy when it comes to keyboard sounds.  I'm kind of surprised you mention Wakeman, as he has been the king of horrid keyboard sounds over the years (though in the early to mid 70's, he used all the right ones, to be sure).

good point about wakeman.  he became a complete cheese ball beginning with tormato.  he just ruined the keys to ascension stuff, as far as i'm concerned.  i still like it though and he does used the right sounds here and there.  he def is one of the casualties of the 80s synth revolution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2012 at 11:12
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:


i know, i thought of you infand when i saw his number 1 being Love Supreme.  i love that song now, btw Smile


Well, I still think it's their most irritating epic.  I don't hate it however, I just think there is not a whole lot going on and it just never really takes off as a song.  Driver's Seat is better, but still low on my list.  I'd have to say that I actually prefer Monster's and Men to Love Supreme, and I think everyone here knows my feelings about that dull and lifeless song (which Roine has said yet again on the Flower Kings yahoo group that he has never been happy with it........apparently he didn't want it to open the album and a couple other members talked him into it.......he didn't say which ones).


Lol, you quoted me for something I didn't say. LOL

Yea, I read Roine's comments about PH on the TFK Yahoo group this morning.



Sorry, I was trying to make it more readable, and messed up the quoting.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2012 at 12:24
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

 
good point about wakeman.  he became a complete cheese ball beginning with tormato.  he just ruined the keys to ascension stuff, as far as i'm concerned.  i still like it though and he does used the right sounds here and there.  he def is one of the casualties of the 80s synth revolution.
 
I am responding to infandous, but Zuma put it best so I am quoting him about Rick's cheesy sounds.
 
Exactly, on the cheese ball sounds, but I was talkin bout somethin different.  The actual overmodulation of the
settings(A-D-S-R envelopes for keyboardists out there...)  A technique that adjusted too far makes one note indistinguishable from another.  T. Bodin does it with TFK. Igor did it with YES live, most modern keyboards do it
as I guess it is their "spin" or particular taste.  The problem is that it makes the notes hard to hear, it all can be a run-on
or a bunch or mush.
 
Yes, Wakeman has been the king of cheese, actually forever.  I love the guy dearly and will defend his playing to the death, but even listen to Yessongs, on YIND the organ is thin & cheesy.  Compare Rick's sounds to the keyboardists of that period.  Emerson or Eddie Jobson, those cats had some major tone goin on.
 
Wakeman since Tormato has been cheesy and too digital.  having read several biographies on Rick he has gone bankrupt so many times, my guess whould be that he plays the keyboards that any keyboard maker will give him.
His keys on ABW&H were probably the worst I have ever heard on a prog record.  Digital, and that is not a good thing and thin sounding.  Just awful.
 
But at least you could always hear the notes clearly on what Wakeman played, and...
 
Those Birotron things he toured with in 1978 & 1979, gave Future Times & Silent Wings a very fresh and distincitive
sound.  Those Birotrons actually sounded awesome in concert. Smile


Edited by dennismoore - April 04 2012 at 12:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2012 at 15:56
good points about wakemen.  ABWH would have been a great album if not for the electric drums and cheese keys.  i think i finally get what your saying about over modulation.  bodin def does this, but i think he does it intentionally.  he's more atmospheric than 'note' oriented.  what about tony banks?  his keys were always clean, but through the years become increasingly weak sounding to the point where he seems nonexistent on the 2007 live disc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2012 at 11:12
I see what you are saying Dennis, and it's probably true.  I don't really notice it on FK stuff, but as zumacraig says, Tomas is more an atmosphere guy, not a notes guy.  I talked to Jonas at Rosfest back in 2005 about this, and Jonas basically said that Tomas is not a virtuoso type player, not a technical wizard, but a feel and sounds player.  Jonas felt his sound choices were genius and that he was better at that than anyone else Jonas knew.  I'll take his word over yours Smile LOL  Seriously though, I know what you are saying, I just don't have a problem with it and think it works for him and TFK.

Edited by infandous - April 06 2012 at 11:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2012 at 14:53
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I see what you are saying Dennis, and it's probably true.  I don't really notice it on FK stuff, but as zumacraig says, Tomas is more an atmosphere guy, not a notes guy.  I talked to Jonas at Rosfest back in 2005 about this, and Jonas basically said that Tomas is not a virtuoso type player, not a technical wizard, but a feel and sounds player.  Jonas felt his sound choices were genius and that he was better at that than anyone else Jonas knew.  I'll take his word over yours Smile LOL  Seriously though, I know what you are saying, I just don't have a problem with it and think it works for him and TFK.
 
 
@Zuma, yes, exactly. ABW&H could have been monstrously good with acoustic drums and pro-level keyboards, and yes what Tony Banks devolved to on Invisible Touch and later can only be described as the biggest waste of talent, since uh, Phil Collins decided to record 3 minute Motown tunes.... but lamentably I now need to deal with this Chicken Farm Song hatin dude, ok, where were we....  oh... Infandous!   yoo hoo!
 
Ok, @infandous:
 
I do think you are half-reading Jonas' quote.  As I agree with Jonas(great minds do think alikeWink).  I think T. Bodin is
not lacking whatsoever technically, and I think Jonas was shooting some depricating humor at his friend Tomas' way...
 
All along I have been thinking about the two keyboard pieces on Stardust, side 2.  The delicate grand piano piece and powerful & ballsy pipe organ ditty.  They are about as emotional and inspiring as I have heard.  The two recordings clearly show Tomas' brilliance.  When a keyboardist records synthesizers a whole different dynamic takes place, and it is so easy to get lost in over doing it electronically.  I admire greatly Tommy B, that is why I actually wanna HEAR what he is playing. The live DVD that has Garden Of Dreams is priceless to me as it is TFK AND it is recorded as good as can be in full hi-fi glory, BUT, when it comes to that great synth solo Thomas has the keys way overmodulated so one can not actually hear what the lad is doing!
 
Is it so wrong to want to actually hear what one of your favorite artists is playing???  Confused
 
 


Edited by dennismoore - April 06 2012 at 14:56
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2012 at 15:57
i like Lalle Larson's key sound.  he really enhances the entire band sound and lays low.  but when a solo comes, he just rips it.  he also basically has 3 sounds; organ, piano and sawtooth synth.  one thing i wish tfk and the like did was more straight ahead synth solos that are kind of longish.  like the the solo on serious dreamers.  morse does more melodic synth stuff, but it's never long enough for my ears.  hell. i could listen to vintage (correctly modulated:) synth keys and pedals all day long!  one of the things i like about early marillion is the pedals and the spacious production.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 06:44

UK DATE FOR THE FLOWER KINGS!!


Sunday 23 September 2012

The Flower Kings

The Picturedrome, Holmfirth

 
I think this is to be confirmed and it's all I know at the moment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2012 at 22:29
Okay. How about your one favorite song from each album. I'll start:

The Flower King-The Flower King
BitWoA-Big Puzzle
Retropolis-Retropolis
Stardust We Are-Stardust We Are
Flower Power-Psychadelic Postcard
Space Revolver-I Am The Sun part 1
Rainmaker-Last Minute On Earth (favorite TFK tune of all time)
Unfold The Future-Truth Will Set You Free
Adam and Eve-Love Supreme
Paradox Hotel-Minor Giant Steps
Sum of No Evil-One More Time
Banks of Eden-?



Edited by zumacraig - April 08 2012 at 08:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 13:41
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

Okay. How about your one favorite song from each album. I'll start:

The Flower King-The Flower King
BitWoA-Big Puzzle
Retropolis-Retropolis
Stardust We Are-Stardust We Are
Flower Power-Psychadelic Postcard
Space Revolver-I Am The Sun part 1
Rainmaker-Last Minute On Earth (favorite TFK tune of all time)
Unfold The Future-Truth Will Set You Free
Adam and Eve-Love Supreme
Paradox Hotel-Minor Giant Steps
Sum of No Evil-One More Time
Banks of Eden-?



Ok, here's my choices:

The Flower King - I had no choice but to buy it as an import for 30.00.  To this day I feel ripped off. None of the music
keeps my attention. Don't get your panties in a bunch, this is just my impression. Repeated listens just piss me off more and make we wanna call Gloria Allred and sue somebody.Wink

Back in the World of Adventures - World of Adventures (This is where TFK seem to get their individuality, to me making complicated music doesn't mean you will have an interesting song(like the prior CD).  This stuff is complex but has some "mojo workin". Tongue

Retropolis - There Is More To This World  Really nice non 4/4 ditty but with a fun groove.

Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are Perhaps TFK's own CTTE type signature epic.  Pure prog perfection.Approve

Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams (@zumacraig: after you put down the crack pipe you may wanna reconsider your choice.Wink)  How can any FK fan not pick G.o.D. here?Confused       LOL

Space Revolver - Uh you should have seen this cumin..... The Chicken Farmer Song! LOL  Though I must pick the entire record as my favorite song. This is the best FK CD for start to finish strength.

Rainmaker -  Last Minute On Earth, best of a lower echelon of tunes..

Unfold The Future - Truth Will Set You Free. TFK played this live when I saw them, it has much more energy live.Smile

Adam and Eve - No favorite, I do not support bestiality.Wink Call me a conservative, call me narrow minded.  I don't like my naked women with large apes.  I'm funny that way.   Artwork is same as the music.  Bad ideas that never should have gone to print.  TFK have two outstanding singers, they did not need to add a metal guy and give him prime time.  WTF Roine???

Paradox Hotel - Still hasn't grabbed me yet.  Sounds too much like Roine is trying to preach at me. I don't like paying $$$ to get a lecture on morality.  PH seems preachy.  If I want somebody to take my $$$ and give me a sermon, I will go back to mass & listen to the Monsignor.  Do you guys have any idea how much I gave that guy already???

Sum of No Evil -  I didn't buy this one..

I am excited for the new record, after a few years perhaps TFK can focus on what got them there and not try to redefine the band with heavy metal singers. Approve   Cool   Clap   LOL















Edited by dennismoore - April 09 2012 at 19:00
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 15:46
i knew i'd get flack for my Flower Power choice.  of course i like it, but if i had to choose one tune from that album, it'd be psychedelic postcard.  

dennis, i'm so surprised to see your pick for space revolver!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 17:58

The Flower King - Humanizzimo 

BitWoA - Big Puzzle

Retropolis - The Road Back Home

Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are

Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams

Space Revolver - I Am The Sun, part 2

Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers

Unfold The Future - The Truth Will Set You Free

Adam and Eve - Driver's Seat

Paradox Hotel - Monsters & Men

Sum of No Evil - The River

Banks of Eden - Pillars Of Creation

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 20:02
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

i knew i'd get flack for my Flower Power choice.  of course i like it, but if i had to choose one tune from that album, it'd be psychedelic postcard.  

dennis, i'm so surprised to see your pick for space revolver!


Hey Zuma,

Well of Space Revolver, I Am The Sun, is not really a song, it is 2 songs or one part A and another
part B or some say it is actually Part I and the rest is Part II(The album actually sez this...) And then when you consider the other fine songs the choice gets even more confusing.

So a clear winner and end to all this madness would be to select, as best:

The Chicken Farmer Song

How can you argue with that logic ???Confused

Now.... can you please explain how psychedelic postcard gets chosen over Garden Of Dreams?

"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2012 at 22:32
Originally posted by Nov Nov wrote:


The Flower King - Humanizzimo 

BitWoA - Big Puzzle

Retropolis - The Road Back Home

Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are

Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams

Space Revolver - I Am The Sun, part 2

Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers

Unfold The Future - The Truth Will Set You Free

Adam and Eve - Driver's Seat

Paradox Hotel - Monsters & Men

Sum of No Evil - The River

Banks of Eden - Pillars Of Creation


Nov, have you seen a track list for Banks of Eden?      !!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2012 at 03:31
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

Originally posted by Nov Nov wrote:


The Flower King - Humanizzimo 

BitWoA - Big Puzzle

Retropolis - The Road Back Home

Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are

Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams

Space Revolver - I Am The Sun, part 2

Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers

Unfold The Future - The Truth Will Set You Free

Adam and Eve - Driver's Seat

Paradox Hotel - Monsters & Men

Sum of No Evil - The River

Banks of Eden - Pillars Of Creation


Nov, have you seen a track list for Banks of Eden?      !!!!
No, sorry.........

I just made up a mythical Flower Kings song to see who would bite Wink

Pathetic, I know , but strangely satisfying 

Apologies for any embarrassment caused........

(My favourite track on Banks of Eden is actually 'Paradise Rebels')


Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2012 at 07:51
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:

Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

i knew i'd get flack for my Flower Power choice.  of course i like it, but if i had to choose one tune from that album, it'd be psychedelic postcard.  

dennis, i'm so surprised to see your pick for space revolver!


Hey Zuma,

Well of Space Revolver, I Am The Sun, is not really a song, it is 2 songs or one part A and another
part B or some say it is actually Part I and the rest is Part II(The album actually sez this...) And then when you consider the other fine songs the choice gets even more confusing.

So a clear winner and end to all this madness would be to select, as best:

The Chicken Farmer Song

How can you argue with that logic ???Confused

Now.... can you please explain how psychedelic postcard gets chosen over Garden Of Dreams?


LOL  Ya git.


 . . . and for the record, I find "Garden of Dreams" to be too much.  My preference on that album is "IKEA  by Night".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennismoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2012 at 08:03
Originally posted by Roland113 Roland113 wrote:


 . . . and for the record, I find "Garden of Dreams" to be too much.  My preference on that album is "IKEA  by Night".
 
Me three,
 
That is why I edited it for my recreational uses. I think I cut it down about 10 minutes of it.
 
Check out my version on the centerfold card I posted in this thread a few pages back.  I cut out that "funeral dirge"
part as well as some needless doodling.Wink  It is much stonger and can go from start to finish without expiring prematurely.
 
@Roland113:  Hey Cowboy!  Where is your list???


Edited by dennismoore - April 09 2012 at 08:05
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2012 at 08:49
Originally posted by Nov Nov wrote:

Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

Originally posted by Nov Nov wrote:


The Flower King - Humanizzimo 

BitWoA - Big Puzzle

Retropolis - The Road Back Home

Stardust We Are - Stardust We Are

Flower Power - Garden Of Dreams

Space Revolver - I Am The Sun, part 2

Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers

Unfold The Future - The Truth Will Set You Free

Adam and Eve - Driver's Seat

Paradox Hotel - Monsters & Men

Sum of No Evil - The River

Banks of Eden - Pillars Of Creation


Nov, have you seen a track list for Banks of Eden?      !!!!
No, sorry.........

I just made up a mythical Flower Kings song to see who would bite Wink

Pathetic, I know , but strangely satisfying 

Apologies for any embarrassment caused........

(My favourite track on Banks of Eden is actually 'Paradise Rebels')


Wink






no worries at all!  making up TFK song titles is fun.  how about "Cosmic Goddess", a bodin instrumental:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2012 at 08:51
roland, i'm the same way about flower power.  it's really hard to pay attention all the way through.  it's great, but not my ultimate favorite from that album.  ikea is a nice pick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2012 at 08:55
My list, it's on page 56, but here's a copy of it.


The Flower King - 
Humanizzimo
Back in the World of Adventures - Big Puzzle
Retropolis - Flora Majora
Stardust We Are - Just this Once
Flower Power - IKEA by Night
Space Revolver - I Am The Sun
Rainmaker - Serious Dreamers
Unfold The Future - Grand Old World
Adam and Eve - Adam and Eve
Paradox Hotel - End on a High Note (with Minor Giant Steps a very close second)
Sum of No Evil - One More Time

Yeah, I was curious about the insert, why is the woman on a commode?
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