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dennismoore
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
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Points: 877
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 09:36 |
Epignosis wrote:
twosteves wrote:
I've heard it all in IMO Sherwood is very second rate ---I mean he was given the keys to the kingdom and he came up with Open your eyes--- and was in to a few songs on the Ladder--but it is another album I rarely listen to even though it has some good Howe leads---but I'm a listener who rarely revisits any of the Rabin period although I have all of it---so to each their own---Yes for me is best when it has really exceptional talent---and no dead weight--but I am probably in the minority on this. |
I think what your earlier post is ignoring is context. Yes could have come up with an album in the mid-90s and it still would have been terrible. Lots of "classic" bands were doing awful things in the 80s and 90s. Sherwood was incidental. He's a very good musician and vocalist.
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Hi Epignosis,
You came down pretty hard on 2Steves, who I (as a YES fan who has seen every tour since 1977) condsider is absolutely spot on in his assessment of Billy. S. Billy S. is nowhere near the class of musicians that YES have had over the years.Can Billy S. play an instrument?, Sure, just like most people in this forum. Yes, I have heard his records. They are over processed and what he plays is a rip off from YES past and prog in general. As far as him in YES, the little fart sounds he makes with his guitar on stage actually ruined the YES classics. If you recall, in the Dark Days of Billy-YES, YES sold a recording of an LA Universal Amphitheatre Show. Billy S. did a guitar solo during Wurm. It was pathetic beyond belief and was an utter embarassment. Please track that down, listen to it, and then tell us how great a musician Billy S. is.
Have you seen Chris Squires' Fish Out Of Water DVD? Billy S. ruins Hold Out You Hand with his little fart noises
on the guitar. THANK GOD the keyboard player in that had the good sense to stay true to the song and play the organ
work straight, to save that song.
Second, your position that Billy S. was "incidental" and that YES would have made a bad album in the 80s-90s because that was what bands did. That is ridiculous. Yes does what Yes does, good or bad. Blaming YES for the time period and holding Billy S. blameless for his disater that was Open Your Eyes, just beacuse what other artists were doing, is crazy talk.
2Steves made a great point, in the context of the world class musicians of YES past:
Steve Howe
Rick Wakman
Bill Bruford
Alan White
Pat Moraz...
Peter Banks (very tasty guitar work on the 1st 2 YES records)
...can't forget Jon Anderson ...
Chris Squire has made some dubious choices:
Billy S. - WTF???
The Buggles? - What? Were the Bee Gees not available?
Trevor(I wanna be a Rock Star) Rabin
2 different classes of musicians.
Oh man, this is painful because now I am remembering what rubbish Billy's Open Your Eyes was, over processed, over tracked, no substance in writing or composition. Oy Vey!
@2Steves: Why did you start this whole mess????
Edited by dennismoore - February 22 2012 at 09:24
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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The-time-is-now
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 2060
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 05:53 |
Epignosis wrote:
twosteves wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I'm beginning to think the one person who should leave Yes is Squire himself. What's the point of getting new recruits if they won't last long enough to make any worthy contributions? |
They did Yes without Squire---that was ABWH---I think finding a singer is really hard---but Squire has been guilty in the past of bringing second rate musicians into the fold (Sherwood) and it has been a disaster ---but so has Anderson--(Oliver and the Russian dude)-You need really amazing musicians in the group to really shine---that's Yes' key to success---But a singer will always be tough---that has always been the case in any group. |
No way is Sherwood or Khoroshev second rate. The Ladder is incredible. I saw Yes' Masterworks Tour with the latter, and he was impressive. Sure Open Your Eyes was bad, but Sherwood is by no means second rate (check out The Unknown by Conspiracy).
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Completely agreed !
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One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32541
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 20:32 |
twosteves wrote:
I've heard it all in IMO Sherwood is very second rate ---I mean he was given the keys to the kingdom and he came up with Open your eyes--- and was in to a few songs on the Ladder--but it is another album I rarely listen to even though it has some good Howe leads---but I'm a listener who rarely revisits any of the Rabin period although I have all of it---so to each their own---Yes for me is best when it has really exceptional talent---and no dead weight--but I am probably in the minority on this. | I think what your earlier post is ignoring is context. Yes could have come up with an album in the mid-90s and it still would have been terrible. Lots of "classic" bands were doing awful things in the 80s and 90s. Sherwood was incidental. He's a very good musician and vocalist.
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4095
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 20:18 |
I've heard it all in IMO Sherwood is very second rate ---I mean he was given the keys to the kingdom and he came up with Open your eyes--- and was in to a few songs on the Ladder--but it is another album I rarely listen to even though it has some good Howe leads---but I'm a listener who rarely revisits any of the Rabin period although I have all of it---so to each their own---Yes for me is best when it has really exceptional talent---and no dead weight--but I am probably in the minority on this.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12771
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 19:58 |
I guess the best "replacements" the band has been able to get have been Patrick Moraz, and even Trevor Rabin (even though Howe was better in my book, and surely just about everyone in the forum), Rabin was indeed a creative force in the band (for better or worse), and gave them new fuel. Well, the best replacements if we don' consider Howe and Wakeman as replacements themselves (which, as a matter of fact, they were).
Still, Yes indeed needs some first class new musician/composer into the band... a future prog legen. Anything less than that won't get Yes back to their legendary status.
On the other hand, I'm still waiting (and hoping) for the new project between Anderson, Wakeman, Rabin. I'm hoping this could give us something worthy of Yes too (it would be great if Wakeman would take and be given room to compose himself... for I really love many of his prog albums... and he's done a few very enjoyable ones last decade - "Out There" was an easy 5 star for me). And, somehow I feel Wakeman and Rabin may be able to work very well together... if Rabin comits himself to prog instead of pop.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 19:52 |
twosteves wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
I'm beginning to think the one person who should leave Yes is Squire himself. What's the point of getting new recruits if they won't last long enough to make any worthy contributions? |
They did Yes without Squire---that was ABWH---I think finding a singer is really hard---but Squire has been guilty in the past of bringing second rate musicians into the fold (Sherwood) and it has been a disaster ---but so has Anderson--(Oliver and the Russian dude)-You need really amazing musicians in the group to really shine---that's Yes' key to success---But a singer will always be tough---that has always been the case in any group. | No way is Sherwood or Khoroshev second rate. The Ladder is incredible. I saw Yes' Masterworks Tour with the latter, and he was impressive. Sure Open Your Eyes was bad, but Sherwood is by no means second rate (check out The Unknown by Conspiracy).
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4095
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 19:12 |
Dellinger wrote:
I'm beginning to think the one person who should leave Yes is Squire himself. What's the point of getting new recruits if they won't last long enough to make any worthy contributions? |
They did Yes without Squire---that was ABWH---I think finding a singer is really hard---but Squire has been guilty in the past of bringing second rate musicians into the fold (Sherwood) and it has been a disaster ---but so has Anderson--(Oliver and the Russian dude)-You need really amazing musicians in the group to really shine---that's Yes' key to success---But a singer will always be tough---that has always been the case in any group.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12771
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 18:40 |
I'm beginning to think the one person who should leave Yes is Squire himself. What's the point of getting new recruits if they won't last long enough to make any worthy contributions?
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: February 19 2012 at 15:36 |
lazland wrote:
Moogtron III wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Does Yes have a communication problem?
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One would certainly think so, yes
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Certainly Squire seems to. I despair of him.
That is, though, a nicely considered piece by David, which shows him in a very positive light. |
David takes it all very well, yes. Good man
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: February 19 2012 at 13:52 |
lazland wrote:
That is, though, a nicely considered piece by David, which shows him in a very positive light. |
Sounds like a top bloke, indeed.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13741
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Posted: February 19 2012 at 13:46 |
Moogtron III wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Does Yes have a communication problem?
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One would certainly think so, yes
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Certainly Squire seems to. I despair of him.
That is, though, a nicely considered piece by David, which shows him in a very positive light.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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dennismoore
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 14:20 |
stewe wrote:
Sure! I would definitely suggest or rather strongly recommend two bands, both 70s classic prog albums,
Flamengo - Kure v hodinkach Fermata - Huascaran
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Thanks, I will check those two out. Cheers! DM
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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TheGazzardian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 11 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8747
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 13:07 |
One need only look at the bands name to find out.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 13:06 |
Epignosis wrote:
Does Yes have a communication problem?
| One would certainly think so, yes
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 12:54 |
Does Yes have a communication problem?
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TheGazzardian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 11 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8747
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 11:08 |
Benoit has always been a class act, it's a shame that his time with Yes ended in such a way.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21048
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 10:59 |
From Benoit David :-
Dear YES fans, As you all know, the final three shows of last year's European tour were cancelled due to my ill health. On my return to Canada, I was advised to cease touring, for the foreseeable future, in order to avoid further damage to my voice. Following this extremely disappointing diagnosis, I had no alternative but to inform my fellow band members that I was unable to confirm my availability for, at least, the forthcoming concerts in New Zealand, Australia and Japan. Although there was no alternative, I did so with a heavy heart as I felt that I was letting everyone down especially those who have supported me since I had the privilege of becoming the band's vocalist in 2008. The band members were all very understanding and asked if I would mind being replaced for the April shows - I immediately agreed that this would be the best way forward and gave them my blessing. I was then pleased to learn that Jon Davison would be my replacement as he is an accomplished musician with a fine voice. I subsequently learnt, from a band member's interview, that I had officially left Yes and that my departure was permanent. As this is the situation, everyone should know that I will be eternally grateful for the opportunity I was given and very proud to have contributed to more than 200 concerts and to the 'Fly From Here' and 'In The Present Live From Lyon' albums. I would also like to express my appreciation for the support I was given by each member of the band, the fantastic crew, the management and everyone else involved during my time as vocalist in the band. Finally, to the fans who have applauded my efforts and to those I have had the pleasure of meeting - many thanks, my best wishes and please continue with your support of one of the world's greatest bands - YES. Although I need to take it easy for a while, I fully intend to continue with my music career. In late summer of 2011, I added vocals to Mystery's forthcoming album 'The World Is A Game' - which is at the final stages of mixing and will be available in the near future. This is my third collaboration with Michel St-Pere, and Mystery, following 2007's 'Beneath the Veil of Winter's Face' and 2010's 'One Among The Living'. So I guess I will, hopefully, see you somewhere down the road… Blessings, Benoit David 17th February 2012
Classy real classy
Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - February 18 2012 at 11:01
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Dellinger
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Posted: February 14 2012 at 19:10 |
Indeed, Yes should start looking for some more permanent "new blood", if any of them has ever taken seriously that thing about the "Yes Franchise". If every new member that enters the band leaves after one or two members, none of them will be consolidated within the band by the time the "classic" members are gone. Besides, they need to get people capable of creating new music up to the standards of the 70's classics. I guess Trevor Rabin has been the closest to fulfill this "requirements" I've just made up (he really became a driving force in the writing of the music, and even though it was not "prog masterpiece", it may be said that he at least created some "pop masterpieces with prog elements").
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cstack3
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Posted: February 14 2012 at 13:40 |
lazland wrote:
Nice little blog, although I personally think he is being a little bit polite when he describes the live performance of David as "creditable".
I need to revisit Glass Hammer's work, but I have to say that I am becoming extremely tired of all of these comings & goings in Yes. It's more like Dallas & Dynasty than a classic prog band, if truth be told. |
Exactly!! At this point, the founders should plan for the future and cultivate understudies, as great artists in opera and classical music used to do.
They should treat Yes as an orchestra perhaps, I don't think any of the founders of the London Philharmonic are still in their original chairs!
Squire, Howe, Anderson, White and Wakeman (assuming they could agree on anything) could select vocalists and instrumentalists, compose music, and not have to go through the drudgery of touring. If they did it correctly, it would be spectacular! Look how well Bob Fripp did with the King Crimson franchise, although he did also tour with the band.
I'd LOVE to hear Yes with female vocals! Annie Haslam's version of "Turn of the Century" with Steve Howe was sublime, I'd like more! An Alto would not suffer the vocal strain that a counter-tenor would during all the touring & recording.
If Yes don't watch it, they will rapidly slip into complete irrelevance and ridicule (close to that now, actually). Cheers, my friend!
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13741
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Posted: February 14 2012 at 13:30 |
Nice little blog, although I personally think he is being a little bit polite when he describes the live performance of David as "creditable".
I need to revisit Glass Hammer's work, but I have to say that I am becoming extremely tired of all of these comings & goings in Yes. It's more like Dallas & Dynasty than a classic prog band, if truth be told.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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