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Negoba 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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 Posted: January 30 2012 at 15:20 |
I've long had a theory that abortion was a red herring issue raised to kill the Equal Rights Amendment. Abortion is extremely important to women, for it negates one of the natural inequalities between the sexes.
A country that wasn't ready for ERA concedes abortion, knowing that there will be an enormous backlash which will largely stop any further steps in the women's movement at that point.
In 1972 the ERA passed both houses of Congress...1973 we get Roe.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 15:44 |
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I'm not sure inequality is the right word for the ability to carry a child.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Gamemako
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 15:47 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I'm not sure inequality is the right word for the ability to carry a child.
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Or the burden of carrying the child, as it were. Someone has to do it, but let's face it: morning sickness, inability to bend over, painful childbirth... the one who has to carry it got short shrift. But what do I care, I'm a male. Damn it feels good to be a gangsta!
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Hail Eris!
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 15:50 |
I suppose I am using "inequality" and "difference" as synonyms which isn't purely accurate.
But the point remains. Childbearing is the most important difference between the sexes.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 15:56 |
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I agree (with Negoba that it is the primary difference) that it is but to necessarily label it as a net burden steps out of the realm of science and into subjective evaluation (that is disagreeing with Gamemako).
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - January 30 2012 at 15:56
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Dudemanguy
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 14 2011
Location: In the closet
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 18:11 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I agree (with Negoba that it is the primary difference) that it is but to necessarily label it as a net burden steps out of the realm of science and into subjective evaluation (that is disagreeing with Gamemako).
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I'm not sure how carrying a child that messes up one's emotions and and physique without the ability to get rid of it if something goes wrong during sex can be called anything but a "natural inequality between the sexes."
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 19:27 |
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It's strange that the same thing you describe is really true of a child once it has been born, but yet people would not describe that experience so negatively. Evidently there's nothing to be said of the emotional connection forged between mother and child while in the womb. It's quite simple if you can look past your own worldview for a moment though.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 19:39 |
I think he's just a troll.
Most women would say that carrying a child is a gift and a burden at the same time, like most things that matter.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 20:09 |
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There's no such thing as a free lunch. Huge gift - huge burden.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Online
Points: 32552
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 20:11 |
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I'm a dad, twice over, soon to be three. My children are equal parts joy and frustration. Never would I wish that I could end their lives because they kept me up all night, made me a different person, or infringed upon my property rights.
Most if not all arguments against abortion can be used in support of infanticide.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: January 30 2012 at 21:59 |
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Most women I have talked too have said that, yes, carrying a child is painful and annoying, butthat they wouldn't change that experience for the world, that carrying a child was in the end like a blessing.
Good thing Gamemako and Dudemanguy will never be able to talk about that except from their cold, ultra-cerebral, empty point of view.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 08:22 |
It's not cold or cerebral, it's hedonist. "I want to frak and run." "I want sex with absolutely no strings attached." And then make excuses to try to make that happen.
Figuring out my own life is tough enough, I don't think I can judge other's sexual choices. But I do hate the idea of "free love." It ain't free. We ain't wired that way.
Even in the supposed smartest social groups there seems to be banter to try to make sex like some video game. A diversion, a commodity. It cheapens us all.
And yes I think this is directly related to the abortion issue.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 08:33 |
Negoba wrote:
It's not cold or cerebral, it's hedonist. "I want to frak and run." "I want sex with absolutely no strings attached." And then make excuses to try to make that happen.
Figuring out my own life is tough enough, I don't think I can judge other's sexual choices. But I do hate the idea of "free love." It ain't free. We ain't wired that way.
Even in the supposed smartest social groups there seems to be banter to try to make sex like some video game. A diversion, a commodity. It cheapens us all.
And yes I think this is directly related to the abortion issue.
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I haven't shied away from sex before marriage in my life but you do have to accept responsibility for the consequences should a pregnancy occur. This is why I advocate oral sex over intercourse. I do take serious issue with those who think sex should only be done for procreation. I also don't find anything inherently wrong with people having sexual relations just for the pleasure of orgasm. This is also how we are wired and it doesn't cheapen us all as long as it is consensual and the parties are adults.
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 31 2012 at 08:38
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 08:48 |
I certainly don't think every sexual encounter has to be attached to a relationship, though that is my choice for myself. But even the act of "doing someone a favor" is a connection between two human beings.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 10:06 |
Negoba wrote:
But even the act of "doing someone a favor" is a connection between two human beings.
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Indeed, be it sexual or a massage, going out of your way to help someone in need...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Gamemako
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 11:40 |
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*Sigh*
1) Find me a woman who enjoyed being pregnant. Good luck. You'll need it. And while you're at it, ask about all the sh*t they have to go through so you can play catch with "your" kids.
2) So, I guess I learned today that the notion that a woman should be sovereign over her body justifies stabbing random infants with railroad spikes. Any more such wisdom to provide, Robert?
3) So, Negoba, you think men should be punished just as much as women,
then? Scorched-Earth, kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, is it? No
way we could possibly be concerned with mitigating the misery instead of
punishing the wicked. Achieve equality by making everyone equally handicapped. It's how communist Russia did it, and they turned out well, right?
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Hail Eris!
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 11:44 |
What in the hades are you talking about?
I have delivered several dozen babies...and yes some women cherish the entire experience.
Mitigating the misery of WHAT?
Whatever you're smoking I don't want it.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 11:59 |
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I guess Gamemako hasn't been in contact with that many women. All the ones I've talked too recognized the pains of being pregnant but also mentioned how amazing it felt to have a life growing inside them. ALL of them. And I'm talking women from all ages, friends of mine and also older ones.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 12:02 |
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Mature men do not profess to know what women "feel", unless they want to end up sleeping on the couch.
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Gamemako
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
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Posted: January 31 2012 at 12:20 |
The T wrote:
I guess Gamemako hasn't been in contact with that many women. All the ones I've talked too recognized the pains of being pregnant but also mentioned how amazing it felt to have a life growing inside them. ALL of them. And I'm talking women from all ages, friends of mine and also older ones. |
I almost spent quite a few lines mocking you, but it's not worth it. I clearly do not associate with the kind of women you do. I am not a Christian, so most of the women I associate with are not Christian. I suspect that, if there is a real difference and your assertions are not self-delusion, such demographic differences may be the cause.
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Hail Eris!
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Abortion: Legal or Illegal
