| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Dudemanguy 
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 14 2011
Location: In the closet
Status: Offline
Points: 89
|
 Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:24 |
|
I personally feel that a fetus violates the right to bodily autonomy (since it will affect you emotionally, physically, etc.), so I'm fine with abortion. However, no matter what your position may be, abortion bans are not the answer. Banning abortion would simply make it more dangerous and people will get their abortions from backalley "doctors."
Edited by Dudemanguy - January 27 2012 at 15:24
|
 |
Pekka
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 03 2006
Location: Espoo, Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 6456
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:25 |
|
The personhood question is such a difficult one that I've managed to just skip that when coming to form an opinion. I think abortions should be legal, and the simple reason is that they happen anyway, and if it's illegal it's done by very dangerous means. Legal = good conditions, minimum risk for the almost-mother. I read an article about a recent study into the matter, it somewhat opened my eyes to this question.
|
|
|
|
Gamemako
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:27 |
 Dudemanguy wrote:
Banning abortion would simply make it more dangerous and people will get their abortions from backalley "doctors." |
Dr. Coathanger, at your service. 
|
Hail Eris!
|
|
Dudemanguy
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 14 2011
Location: In the closet
Status: Offline
Points: 89
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:40 |
 Exactly.
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 16:54 |
|
1. Life does begin at conception, that's when you get a set of genetic material in the form of an embryo that is distinct from the parents.
2. Embryos do not automatically implant and develop into a baby.
3. This makes God the biggest abortionist that ever was.
4. Do you really want the state to dictate life or death decisions in this matter?
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 27 2012 at 16:55
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 16:55 |
|
I'm so f**king tired of discussion about abortion. There are so many damn problems in the US today and politicians make it a big deal of whether there should be abortion or not.
|
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 17:03 |
The T wrote:
I'm so f**king tired of discussion about abortion. There are so many damn problems in the US today and politicians make it a big deal of whether there should be abortion or not. |
Yeah, I'm with you. I didn't bring it up and am firm as always on my position.
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 17:09 |
|
Yes. I've always been less than firm on this issue because I really have no clue. But in the end I'd prefer to leave the state out of this one too.
|
|
|
|
Dudemanguy
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 14 2011
Location: In the closet
Status: Offline
Points: 89
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 17:17 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
1. Life does begin at conception, that's when you get a set of genetic material in the form of an embryo that is distinct from the parents. |
Nitpicking here, but life begins before conception. Sperm and eggs are both alive, so this argument (I know that you aren't using it, but I'm just talking about people in general) doesn't really make any sense. Nonetheless, I am perfectly happy with leaving the state out of it.
Edited by Dudemanguy - January 27 2012 at 17:18
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 17:25 |
The T wrote:
Yes. I've always been less than firm on this issue because I really have no clue. But in the end I'd prefer to leave the state out of this one too. |
Nope, you've confused me, surely leaving out the "state" (ie the law makers) results in a pretty firm outcome since a law is require to specifically prohibit something.
|
|
What?
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 17:41 |
Dudemanguy wrote:
Nitpicking here, but life begins before conception. Sperm and eggs are both alive
|
But I still maintain that you weren't you until you were an entity genetically distinct from your parents sperm and egg cells. It is the understanding of what happens next that keeps me firmly in the pro choice camp. Maybe it helps clarify my position or maybe not: I believe in living souls, I do not believe in immortal souls.
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 27 2012 at 17:44
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 17:48 |
Dean wrote:
The T wrote:
Yes. I've always been less than firm on this issue because I really have no clue. But in the end I'd prefer to leave the state out of this one too. |
Nope, you've confused me, surely leaving out the "state" (ie the law makers) results in a pretty firm outcome since a law is require to specifically prohibit something. |
In the end that's the direction that my feelings always take on this issue. No state = people deciding.
Edited by The T - January 27 2012 at 17:49
|
|
|
|
timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 18:15 |
|
Let the people decide
|
|
Dudemanguy
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 14 2011
Location: In the closet
Status: Offline
Points: 89
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 18:33 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
But I still maintain that you weren't you until you were an entity genetically distinct from your parents sperm and egg cells. It is the understanding of what happens next that keeps me firmly in the pro choice camp. Maybe it helps clarify my position or maybe not: I believe in living souls, I do not believe in immortal souls. |
Eh, personally I don't care to make that distinction because a small clump of cells that happen to have unique DNA really doesn't qualify as "life" or "personhood" or whatever you want to call it any more than sperm and eggs. And to clarify I don't believe in any souls other than your brain, but each to his own I suppose. We agree so there's really no point discussing semantics.
|
|
JS19
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 10 2010
Location: Lancaster, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 18:41 |
|
Oh dear. I thought you guys were smart...
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 18:51 |
|
??
|
|
|
|
CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 18:51 |
|
Short answer: keep it illegal except for some specific reasons.
|
|
|
|
Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 18:53 |
At conception, a unique, living, human organism begins. There is no argument to this.
I living newborn has a LOT of neural development to become anything remotely like what we call human. They are also completely and totally dependent on others for survival. And yet we don't think it's ok to euthanise babies who aren't wanted (even if the reasoning is very sound.)
I am not saying prohibition is the answer, it isn't. But no one should be comfortable with the way our society is dealing with the issue right now.
|
|
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
|
|
CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 19:13 |
Negoba wrote:
At conception, a unique, living, human organism begins. There is no argument to this.
I living newborn has a LOT of neural development to become anything remotely like what we call human. They are also completely and totally dependent on others for survival. And yet we don't think it's ok to euthanise babies who aren't wanted (even if the reasoning is very sound.)
I am not saying prohibition is the answer, it isn't. But no one should be comfortable with the way our society is dealing with the issue right now.
|
I, personally, don't understand why people would defend the legalization of abortion when there are such a huge number of contraceptives.
|
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: January 27 2012 at 19:13 |
|
Well, speaking as a man of 46+ years there are no people out there have come from me. I have certainly sent many sperm cells to their death. Any child that would have been part of me would have needed to know their dad...
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Abortion: Legal or Illegal
