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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:29
Deathrabbit wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
The T wrote:
TheMasterMofo wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
^ in other words government when it does things you agree with-- seems all sides want that
That's a pretty stupid way to take that - no offense - because as you said, it applies to anyone but anarchists.
I certainly don't want anarchy with no laws at all. I want the
government to pretty much leave me and everyone else alone, but in cases
of true crime like murder, robbery, etc. the government does and should
have a role.
Who told you you need government to have laws? Have you ever read about anarcho-capitalism? Do you really think you need government to have a society without murder on the street?
You need laws, and you need people who enforce them. Libertarians continue to fail to explain how in a libertarian society a common set of laws can be enforced without something like a government.
Another thing (which I sympathize with) is reducing the areas where the government is currently involved ... for example, drugs should be legalized. And early term abortions.
Not all libertarians are completely anarchist. Just like not all liberals are pot-smoking hippies that chain themselves to trees.
I subscribe to an Einsteinian view. "Make everything as simple as possible, but not any simpler."
I'm not sure painting anarchists as crazy people is rational... anarchists of the "let's have riots every day" kind maybe are, but rational anarcho-capitalists have a lot of things to say...
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 09 2011 at 15:48
JJLehto wrote:
lolno, you guys just can't resist, even though you pour hate on every thread already. Save some hate for other things!
Hey, my hate for government and illegitimate authority and restrictions on freedoms is way less intense than my hate for a particular soccer team in my country that really makes me want to kill people, but nobody knows about it here so this only leaves me one option for venting hate out man!
Joined: May 20 2009
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 220
Posted: November 10 2011 at 04:41
Deathrabbit wrote:
I'm not a 100% sure about the if everyone had guns
thing. I'm a big 2nd amendment believer, don't get me wrong, but i've
seen some bar-fights that prolly would have become killing sprees if the
parties had been armed.
Yeah, but there are tons of robberies and murders that would be deterred
by the knowledge that one has a good chance of being shot to commit
them.
The T wrote:
You just appear on this kind of threads every now and then and miss the conversations where no-government societies with private laws have been discussed.
And you saying NOT POSSIBLE before even entertaining the idea of a doubt is a lot like religious people blindly following things without questioning anything...
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's viable or a good idea.
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
Posted: November 10 2011 at 07:39
What's wrong with blindly following and not questioning things? It got us humans through thousands of years.
Heh, if I had a 'religious moniker' I'd be a Pro-God Atheist. Christ, I hate them smug, arrogant a****le atheists that pump themselves because they think they're special. 'How can you believe that junk? God isn't real - you're wrong and therefore beneath me both morally and intellectually, hur-hur!'. Of course they're wrong! What's so bad about being wrong? We're all wrong! What's bad about it?
What does this have to do with abortion, you may (probably won't) ask? Well, it got to do with the story of Saint Nicholas...
As Santa sat in his flying new Honda Civic
He hailed! On Thrasher! On Blaster! On Blitzkrieg and Joe!
Joined: May 20 2009
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 220
Posted: November 10 2011 at 16:45
The T wrote:
TheMasterMofo wrote:
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's viable or a good idea.
Of course. But it might deserve some discussion and not just a "crazy!" sign...
I agree, and in fact, I believe I even said "I'd much prefer anarchy to the current system of government where they tell everyone what to do and how to do it" or something along those lines earlier. I don't think anarcho-capitalism is crazy, I just don't think it's the best system.
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 12207
Posted: November 13 2011 at 02:48
Alitare wrote:
What's wrong with blindly following and not questioning
things? It got us humans through thousands of years.
I have no idea when you just post stupid stuff for fun and when you're
being serious, as Irony doesn't really travel well online. But asking
questions and not blindly following is what has got humans through
thousands of years (whatever got through means. That we still exist?)
... all things considered I guess we can sum up these 20 pages of heated debate with a with a Heidi Fleiss qoute we all can agree on:Thank God for abortion... I wouldn't be a good mother.
Edited by Saperlipopette! - November 13 2011 at 03:19
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
Posted: November 13 2011 at 07:10
As I've said before, I think I'm a pro-god atheist. Why are people bad or inferior for believing in something? I try not to, but what makes it objectively wrong?
Joined: August 09 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 514
Posted: January 27 2012 at 14:55
Abortion is legal in all countries that honour woman's right to make the decision whether she wants to give birth to a child or not. To me, that right is as natural as breathing is to a human being.
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:09
Abortion is extremely complex.
It gets at so many very tough issues.
What is "personhood?"
To say that going through the birth canal or that being surgically removed is the difference between "person" and "not person" is insanity. At the same time, when inside, the drastic degree that one person affects another person's life choices is so enormous as to have to be considered.
How do you weigh the rights of two persons against each other? What if one is a child?
No one can say where between a fertilized egg and screaming baby a child gets the minimal rights of personhood.
There are many many red herrings in this mess.
Abortion has everything to do with religion, because religion often is a huge determining factor in where one places the quality of personhood and the relative strength of individual rights.
If you think it's simple or a no-brainer you're not paying attention.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Joined: March 31 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1184
Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:22
Negoba wrote:
What is "personhood?"
To say that going through the birth canal or that being surgically removed is the difference between "person" and "not person" is insanity. At the same time, when inside, the drastic degree that one person affects another person's life choices is so enormous as to have to be considered.
To say that a fertilized egg is a person is equally nuts. Actually, far more so; at least the other is reasonable prior to viability. We do not write death certificates for miscarriages.
Negoba wrote:
How do you weigh the rights of two persons against each other?
Carefully.
Negoba wrote:
What if one is a child?
What if one of them is a pretty white girl? What if one of them is the embodiment of our illogical, arrogant, and damaging biases?
Negoba wrote:
No one can say where between a fertilized egg and screaming baby a child gets the minimal rights of personhood.
Anyone can say where they do get the rights; that is a legal matter. Where they should get said rights is a moral judgment.
Negoba wrote:
Abortion has everything to do with religion, because religion often is a huge determining factor in where one places the quality of personhood and the relative strength of individual rights.
No law should ever be based on religion. I hate to speak in absolutes, but this one is something for which I can find no remote exception or even something worthy of the mildest consideration.
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Abortion: Legal or Illegal
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Deathrabbit wrote:
