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Topic ClosedClean Vocals or Death Growl? (Modern Prog)
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2012 at 03:42
Originally posted by sideburndude... sideburndude... wrote:

I have no problem with either style, both can be pulled off well if done right.

It's nice to be pulled off well.
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2012 at 09:48
 I just prefer whatever suits the music best. 
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Points: 2546 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2012 at 18:15
Originally posted by sean sean wrote:

 I just prefer whatever suits the music best. 

Same here! I think the majority of vocals in Prog are clean which is important if you are into lyrics. But for a group like "Opeth"  for example - the death growl is very appropriate and Mikael Akerfeld is fortunately, an exponent of both vocal styles. I have to say that I hated the death growl at first but as time has gone on, it does not bother me. 

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Points: 383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2012 at 19:18
I like both. I used to hate. I mean HATE harsh vocals. But my friends that were into metalcore slowly got me into the vox slowly and surely. Now I can appreciate bands from Yes to Devin Townsend. Both have amazing vocalists!
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Points: 1455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2012 at 20:10
Originally posted by JonteJH JonteJH wrote:

Symphony X growling, wait what?
My thoughts exactly.  Russell Allen does a good job of channeling Ronnie James Dio, but I wouldn't call that style of singing "death growl"...
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Points: 492 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 02:15
Strange how whenever the argument that growlers can't sing is brought up (sic) Akerfeld's name is brought into the fray. I agree that he can sing and that he has a good voice - hence I enjoy Opeth's latest album. He the only example though?  Very much seems that way. I have the entire studio Opeth discography and their only album that enjoys time with my ears is their latest album which I feel is very good.
The iconic vocalists in Rock - people like Dio, Halford, Gillian, Allen, Plant, Perry, Mercury and LaBrie (yes I do regard him to fall within the names just mentioned) etc. do get very close to growling in places but not in any way consistantly in the Death Metal type of method.
Fish who is an accomplished vocalist - if not an exceptional one - is able to portray a variety of emotions - extreme anger, sadness, sarcasm, happiness, joy - in his music, especially in his Marillion period way more effectively than many. Fish sounding angry sounds angry more effectively than a growler could purely by voice inflection.
Halford sounding demonic would probably make a demon run for his life much more effectively than a growler could.
To my ears growling is unpleasant and I enjoy it, as I've said previously, only when it is dramatically called for within the music to enhance an emotion.
 
The above is my own opinion and accordingly speaks of my own preference relating to vocals in music. I have never and would never claim that an extreme prog death metal fan is any less intelligent due to his preferences though or that his preferences have less validity than mine do.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 02:21
^ that's not what (sic) means Dave.
What?
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Points: 75 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 02:43
great topic.
 
though i think in the realm of progressive music - unless the vocalist is exceptional and extremely diverse - instrumental bands have an enormous amount of credibility, in that they can create thought provoking and melodious music using their musical wit, without needing to rely on a vocalist to piece it all together. who agrees with this?
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 05:09
Originally posted by DavetheSlave DavetheSlave wrote:

Strange how whenever the argument that growlers can't sing is brought up (sic) Akerfeld's name is brought into the fray. I agree that he can sing and that he has a good voice - hence I enjoy Opeth's latest album. He the only example though?  Very much seems that way.


Nah, there's heaps more out there.

Too lazy to make a list - but two names come to mind but - Devin Townsend and Mike Patton.

Of course, like any style of performance from any instrument in any genre, if the harsh vocals are done without variety, it's not very enjoyable. Variety is key, and not every metal vocalist has it, whether they're in prog or not.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 06:32
Originally posted by DavetheSlave DavetheSlave wrote:

Strange how whenever the argument that growlers can't sing is brought up (sic) Akerfeld's name is brought into the fray. I agree that he can sing and that he has a good voice - hence I enjoy Opeth's latest album. He the only example though?  Very much seems that way. I have the entire studio Opeth discography and their only album that enjoys time with my ears is their latest album which I feel is very good. 


Only example in prog or as such?  I mean, Mike Patton is pretty much the maestro when it comes to assimilating varied harsh and clean vocal styles.  Here's Exhibit A:




Originally posted by DavetheSlave DavetheSlave wrote:

Fish who is an accomplished vocalist - if not an exceptional one - is able to portray a variety of emotions - extreme anger, sadness, sarcasm, happiness, joy - in his music, especially in his Marillion period way more effectively than many. Fish sounding angry sounds angry more effectively than a growler could purely by voice inflection.
Halford sounding demonic would probably make a demon run for his life much more effectively than a growler could.


Well, the question is whether you dislike just growls or extreme music generally because I cannot see how either Fish or Halford's vocal styles would be appropriate for a track like this:



Clean, melodic vocals would be so inappropriate for music so, well, chromatic.  And this is the kind of music from which the tech/extreme flank of prog metal derives (which is also where you mainly find growls in any kind of prog).
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Points: 42 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 11:09
Hi everybody!

This growling, screaming, puking or whatever disgusting form
of communicating on a rather child-like level, is surely
a sign of the times, which shows first how inarticulate it can
get and second that the music industry needs ever stronger
stimuli(butchered babys on album covers, Hannibal Lecter-
masqued figures pissing on stage and what you have) to stir
any interest in musically often mediocre and repetitive
products, cause the profit-rate is diminishing due to
aspects, that don't only affect the music industry, but
any industry.
You can call that economical and spiritual recession.
But anyway,
things can only get better,
so have a nice day.
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 11:17
sigh
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 11:27
^LOL






I agree.
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dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 11:29
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^LOL






I agree.



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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 12:08
Originally posted by MagicMoo MagicMoo wrote:

Hi everybody!

::snip::
 
so have a nice day.
fixed. Stern Smile
What?
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 12:15
Brilliant.LOL
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2012 at 21:37
Originally posted by simonwood44 simonwood44 wrote:

great topic.
 
though i think in the realm of progressive music - unless the vocalist is exceptional and extremely diverse - instrumental bands have an enormous amount of credibility, in that they can create thought provoking and melodious music using their musical wit, without needing to rely on a vocalist to piece it all together. who agrees with this?


Me. Instrumental music is far more intriguiing. Sometimes the singer with something tosay or a great way of saying something can work but they have to fit in instrumentally and that is not easy.

What's more, I don't have to worry about liking the voclas (usually unlikely) and these are also far more likely to fall into the fashion victim trap.

IMHO as ever...Wink
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Points: 492 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2012 at 04:42
Rogerthat - I don't dislike extreme music at all relating to the instruments or the sound - it's when the vocalist starts barking that I kind of hurriedly switch off. There is very little music that I don't like barring mindless pop drivel and harsh vocals in music. Hard Blues, Bluegrass, Big Band, Country Rock, Jazz, Opera, Classical, Metal and of course Prog all kind of occupy  a space in my collection.  
 
Magicmoo - Stern Smile  heh heh - a bit harsh old chap. About the bands that do behave that way - and there are a few - I can only agree - but I don't know that that applies in all cases - lol.
With the harsh vocal thing it's the aggro that I don't like as well the "Im a Badass Demon" thing which holds true in a lot of cases - not all cases, I will admit. Relating to the badass demon thing I have no desire to go to hell to hear what the music there sounds like. Beelzebub singin his horned kid a lullaby aint my idea of a good listening experience.
It may well be that it's the stigma of the Shock Metal acts that has kinda turned me totally off growling because shock metal acts there are aplenty. 
 


Edited by DavetheSlave - January 17 2012 at 06:00
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Points: 67 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2012 at 07:23
Originally posted by MagicMoo MagicMoo wrote:

Hi everybody!

This growling, screaming, puking or whatever disgusting form
of communicating on a rather child-like level, is surely
a sign of the times, which shows first how inarticulate it can
get and second that the music industry needs ever stronger
stimuli(butchered babys on album covers, Hannibal Lecter-
masqued figures pissing on stage and what you have) to stir
any interest in musically often mediocre and repetitive
products, cause the profit-rate is diminishing due to
aspects, that don't only affect the music industry, but
any industry.
You can call that economical and spiritual recession.
But anyway,
things can only get better,
so have a nice day.

I like how you imply that there is profit to be made in extreme metal. Hahahahahaha.

Dude, there are actually quite a few death metal bands who produce works with compositional complexity that would put a lot of prog groups to shame, quit running your mouth about something with which you are not familiar.
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Points: 1321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2012 at 10:01
Originally posted by Redug Redug wrote:

Originally posted by MagicMoo MagicMoo wrote:

Hi everybody!

This growling, screaming, puking or whatever disgusting form
of communicating on a rather child-like level, is surely
a sign of the times, which shows first how inarticulate it can
get and second that the music industry needs ever stronger
stimuli(butchered babys on album covers, Hannibal Lecter-
masqued figures pissing on stage and what you have) to stir
any interest in musically often mediocre and repetitive
products, cause the profit-rate is diminishing due to
aspects, that don't only affect the music industry, but
any industry.
You can call that economical and spiritual recession.
But anyway,
things can only get better,
so have a nice day.

I like how you imply that there is profit to be made in extreme metal. Hahahahahaha.

Dude, there are actually quite a few death metal bands who produce works with compositional complexity that would put a lot of prog groups to shame, quit running your mouth about something with which you are not familiar.

This was not a post it was worth actually coming up with a reasonable argument and posting it as a reply. Just read it, sigh, laugh and move on.
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