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Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Posted: January 09 2012 at 17:58
wilmon91 wrote:
Sting said that jazz is something you need to learn to like. I'm still trying to learn, and understand.
Sting can be a bit of a weenie sometimes. Music that you need to learn to like is music you can do without. I came to like jazz by being exposed to it in free concerts and in bars along with prog in other contexts. In the end it was all good music. Still prog is my love supreme.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: January 09 2012 at 19:19
centum wrote:
Guys, tell me, don't you wish classical music had vocals? Not like operatic vocals but real kick-ass vocals?
I had a moment last month when I had a huge boner on classical music and my girlfriend helped me with that (I understood the ambiguity only afrer I wrote the sentence) - she suggested Ludwig van's IX-th and Scriabin's Prometheus and I gotta say, that's really good music but it's just no fun, it seems to me to be a kind of (don't punch me too hard) half-music. I'd really love drums to be there, I'd really love at least some vocals, maybe some samples and stuff
more or less the same with jazz
and don't get me wrong, I really like instrumental music, some time ago it was the kind of music with vocals that I had problems with...
oh, one more thing, my professor of media theory said that the vocals always were essential for music since music was always viewed as a means of communication and that just added fuel to the fire
Rock/pop kind of singing in classical would be nice but I'd much rather instrumental than operatic vocals, I can't take full on operatic singing. As for drums, I think the lack of it is very important to keep the nuances of classical music intact. Often times, I have noticed that live performances start sounding loud and louder and the soft textures disappear. The main reason for that is once you have drums, everybody has to play louder to be heard over it unless the sound is properly mixed. Without drums, the true contours of a piece is more evident. It is not immediately grabbing, either, but you can't have everything.
Joined: September 29 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 741
Posted: January 09 2012 at 19:30
That's a really sad consideration of ''new'' prog but I feel the same about it. Sterile souds over produced scraps with over long songs that could be less than 5-minutes long. Every new prog bands want to sound the same it seems: over production, they want to impress us with their musical skills, too many too epic songs, songs that are long only to be long and to be called ''art'', they try to sound like old bands even though they do not and they got egos as big as the planet because of the music they play. I still believe art music will reborn more trong one day (because there is new prog bands who are inspiring but they're not the most popular at all).
La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle!
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8615
Posted: January 09 2012 at 20:55
rogerthat wrote:
centum wrote:
Guys, tell me, don't you wish classical music had vocals? Not like operatic vocals but real kick-ass vocals?
I had a moment last month when I had a huge boner on classical music and my girlfriend helped me with that (I understood the ambiguity only afrer I wrote the sentence) - she suggested Ludwig van's IX-th and Scriabin's Prometheus and I gotta say, that's really good music but it's just no fun, it seems to me to be a kind of (don't punch me too hard) half-music. I'd really love drums to be there, I'd really love at least some vocals, maybe some samples and stuff
more or less the same with jazz
and don't get me wrong, I really like instrumental music, some time ago it was the kind of music with vocals that I had problems with...
oh, one more thing, my professor of media theory said that the vocals always were essential for music since music was always viewed as a means of communication and that just added fuel to the fire
Rock/pop kind of singing in classical would be nice but I'd much rather instrumental than operatic vocals, I can't take full on operatic singing. As for drums, I think the lack of it is very important to keep the nuances of classical music intact. Often times, I have noticed that live performances start sounding loud and louder and the soft textures disappear. The main reason for that is once you have drums, everybody has to play louder to be heard over it unless the sound is properly mixed. Without drums, the true contours of a piece is more evident. It is not immediately grabbing, either, but you can't have everything.
In classical music, i find for me the instrumental music is the most deep experience there is-A Bruckner symphony can "sing" or kick-ass more than any singer could ever dream to!
Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 28772
Posted: January 09 2012 at 22:35
Slartibartfast wrote:
wilmon91 wrote:
Sting said that jazz is something you need to learn to like. I'm still trying to learn, and understand.
Sting can be a bit of a weenie sometimes. Music that you need to learn to like is music you can do without. I came to like jazz by being exposed to it in free concerts and in bars along with prog in other contexts. In the end it was all good music. Still prog is my love supreme.
A Love Supreme is the only Love Supreme I listen to.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7265
Posted: January 10 2012 at 05:15
I'm very fond of South American Indian pan flute music, these little groups have a very nice & buoyant vibe! We have them on the streets of Chicago, and I once saw a small group performing the same songs in Exeter, Devon UK!
Sometimes I jam along with these on electric guitar/bass for something different.
Native music contains much of interest to us....polyrhythms, nice tempos, interesting instrumentation etc. I highly recommend it, Gabriel, Byrne, Eno etc. can't all be wrong!
Joined: August 31 2008
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 73
Posted: January 10 2012 at 05:32
rogerthat wrote:
centum wrote:
Guys, tell me, don't you wish classical music had vocals? Not like operatic vocals but real kick-ass vocals?
I had a moment last month when I had a huge boner on classical music and my girlfriend helped me with that (I understood the ambiguity only afrer I wrote the sentence) - she suggested Ludwig van's IX-th and Scriabin's Prometheus and I gotta say, that's really good music but it's just no fun, it seems to me to be a kind of (don't punch me too hard) half-music. I'd really love drums to be there, I'd really love at least some vocals, maybe some samples and stuff
more or less the same with jazz
and don't get me wrong, I really like instrumental music, some time ago it was the kind of music with vocals that I had problems with...
oh, one more thing, my professor of media theory said that the vocals always were essential for music since music was always viewed as a means of communication and that just added fuel to the fire
Rock/pop kind of singing in classical would be nice but I'd much rather instrumental than operatic vocals, I can't take full on operatic singing. As for drums, I think the lack of it is very important to keep the nuances of classical music intact. Often times, I have noticed that live performances start sounding loud and louder and the soft textures disappear. The main reason for that is once you have drums, everybody has to play louder to be heard over it unless the sound is properly mixed. Without drums, the true contours of a piece is more evident. It is not immediately grabbing, either, but you can't have everything.
Agreed. Also, adding pop/rock vocals to orchestral music would also require careful amplification, since a rock singer cannot outsing an orchestra unless he's miked, whereas a classically trained singer can (not all classically trained singing is necessarily operatic, unless the term is used "loosely").
Regarding the topic title, what puts me off most contemporary progressive music (or any contemporary pop music, and now I'm using the term 'pop' loosely ) is how the rhythm sections sound. The percussion is reduced to overproduced thunderclaps of the bass drum and the tin-can sound of the snare, and the bass knob on the bass amp is turned up to 11 (this refers more to commercial music, progressive rock mostly suffers from the Geddy Lee/Jaco Pastorius syndrome). A bad-sounding rhythm section makes a record instantly unlistenable for me.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: January 10 2012 at 05:39
Ludjak wrote:
Agreed. Also, adding pop/rock vocals to orchestral music would also require careful amplification, since a rock singer cannot outsing an orchestra unless he's miked, whereas a classically trained singer can (not all classically trained singing is necessarily operatic, unless the term is used "loosely").
Very good point...forgot about that. On the other hand, the typical big vibrato used in classical singing really gets in the way for me and I go with presdoug there; much prefer instrumental classical music.
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14110
Posted: January 10 2012 at 07:47
cstack3 wrote:
I'm very fond of South American Indian pan flute music, these little groups have a very nice & buoyant vibe! We have them on the streets of Chicago, and I once saw a small group performing the same songs in Exeter, Devon UK!
Sometimes I jam along with these on electric guitar/bass for something different.
Native music contains much of interest to us....polyrhythms, nice tempos, interesting instrumentation etc. I highly recommend it, Gabriel, Byrne, Eno etc. can't all be wrong!
Agreed. There's a lot of interesting things around. In terms of World I'm more oriented to the Far East and Yungchen Lhamo (Tibet) is one of my fav.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: January 10 2012 at 07:51
Mosis wrote:
it always makes me chuckle when someone with the musical maturity of a 17 year old goes on a tirade against pop music and uses some douche-metal circle jerkers like Dream Theater as an example of "real" music.
The irony is that Another Day sits even more, ermm, 'prettily' on a Kenny G collection than any Carpenters hit. Some people just don't seem to get how tough it is to craft a good pop song that resonates with a large audience.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7265
Posted: January 10 2012 at 11:07
octopus-4 wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
I'm very fond of South American Indian pan flute music, these little groups have a very nice & buoyant vibe! We have them on the streets of Chicago, and I once saw a small group performing the same songs in Exeter, Devon UK!
Sometimes I jam along with these on electric guitar/bass for something different.
Native music contains much of interest to us....polyrhythms, nice tempos, interesting instrumentation etc. I highly recommend it, Gabriel, Byrne, Eno etc. can't all be wrong!
Agreed. There's a lot of interesting things around. In terms of World I'm more oriented to the Far East and Yungchen Lhamo (Tibet) is one of my fav.
Thanks, I need to check into that!
One of my favorite examples was the influence of Indonesian gamelan music on Fripp's "Discipline" era music. Fantastic translation onto electric guitar, who else but Fripp could do that??
We are finally starting to see some interesting musical evolution out of some real backwaters....these kids are a lot of fun to watch on YouTube! Not prog, but hey, it all starts with pop initially, right?
There will be more interesting music to break out of the PRC someday, they certainly have access to the instruments (Gibson, Fender etc. all build over there). However, the government is notoriously anti-rock because of fears of counter-revolution.
Joined: March 14 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 312
Posted: January 10 2012 at 11:37
I can't say I've lost interest. I've quite a lot to enjoy here at progarchives.com. Especailly the lesser known bands such as Opus Symbiosis (Finland), Osada Vida (Poland) Siena Root (Sweden), The Future Kings Of England (UK), Time Traveller (Finland), Dialeto (Brazil), The Laze (UK), Tuvalu (Finland). Without progarchives.com, I would have never discovered these bands.
I find the aforementioned bands far more progressive and interesting than the emulators like Spock's Beard, Dream Theatre, etc.
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8615
Posted: January 10 2012 at 12:28
cstack3 wrote:
I'm very fond of South American Indian pan flute music, these little groups have a very nice & buoyant vibe! We have them on the streets of Chicago, and I once saw a small group performing the same songs in Exeter, Devon UK!
Sometimes I jam along with these on electric guitar/bass for something different.
Native music contains much of interest to us....polyrhythms, nice tempos, interesting instrumentation etc. I highly recommend it, Gabriel, Byrne, Eno etc. can't all be wrong!
there is a group like that that have been playing the streets of Ottawa for years called Sisa Pacari-interesting stuff!
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14110
Posted: January 10 2012 at 13:32
cstack3 wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
I'm very fond of South American Indian pan flute music, these little groups have a very nice & buoyant vibe! We have them on the streets of Chicago, and I once saw a small group performing the same songs in Exeter, Devon UK!
Sometimes I jam along with these on electric guitar/bass for something different.
Native music contains much of interest to us....polyrhythms, nice tempos, interesting instrumentation etc. I highly recommend it, Gabriel, Byrne, Eno etc. can't all be wrong!
Agreed. There's a lot of interesting things around. In terms of World I'm more oriented to the Far East and Yungchen Lhamo (Tibet) is one of my fav.
Thanks, I need to check into that!
One of my favorite examples was the influence of Indonesian gamelan music on Fripp's "Discipline" era music. Fantastic translation onto electric guitar, who else but Fripp could do that??
We are finally starting to see some interesting musical evolution out of some real backwaters....these kids are a lot of fun to watch on YouTube! Not prog, but hey, it all starts with pop initially, right?
There will be more interesting music to break out of the PRC someday, they certainly have access to the instruments (Gibson, Fender etc. all build over there). However, the government is notoriously anti-rock because of fears of counter-revolution.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: January 10 2012 at 19:46
I have to say, coming late to this thread, that my situation is very similar. I stopped really looking for new prog (even from bands I already knew) almost 2 years ago. I've devoted myself almost entirely to classical and in prog I have basically just continued buying the new albums from already-loved bands, with a few exceptions (Leprous for example). The times when I used to, say, check the list of best albums for a year and buy as many as I could to experiment are long gone. No Umphrey McGee for me. Basically with prog I've grown quite conservative. I have a gigantic collection of classical music CDs which will take me a LONG time to study and enjoy.
Joined: January 07 2012
Location: Hannover
Status: Offline
Points: 42
Posted: January 13 2012 at 14:52
Hi everybody!
The bible says it, the Byrds sang it:
"To everything, turn, turn, turn,
there is a season, turn, turn, turn".
Well,this also goes to show for Progressive Music
and related.
Heyday indeed was 67 to 75.
Problem nowadays is, that imho the music which is called
NuProg is more or less stripped down to a consumer's
phenomenen, whereas in its glory days it was embedded
in countercultural all-day-life, for example the many
country-communes that existed round 70 to 75.
Prog in those days was just one aspect of many
cultural manifestations of doing something else than
Joe Normal.
Today, there's still good music around, but cause of
the socio-economical pressures on the musicians as well as
on the consumer or listener, there's no space or time left
for a reflective, healthy mood, that develops and expands
consciousness.
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Losing interest in prog
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wilmon91 wrote:
) is how the rhythm sections sound. The percussion is reduced to overproduced thunderclaps of the bass drum and the tin-can sound of the snare, and the bass knob on the bass amp is turned up to 11 (this refers more to commercial music, progressive rock mostly suffers from the Geddy Lee/Jaco Pastorius syndrome). A bad-sounding rhythm section makes a record instantly unlistenable for me.
