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thehallway 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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 Posted: January 05 2012 at 15:43 |
Guys, I do plan to join the site...... of course, I want to shove my opinions down people's throats, just like here! But I can tell you now, most of my jazz is fusion, too.
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573
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Posted: January 05 2012 at 17:58 |
I, too, have been quite glad to see JMA start to slide away from fusion a bit. Like others have said, I absolutely love fusion, but the bias towards it could alienate more traditional jazzers. Trying to do my part to make the website a comprehensive database.
I've ended up taking a lengthy break from Prog myself. However, I haven't lost interest: I just have more interest in jazz. And a limited budget to spend on new music. Plus, I'm a jazz musician myself, and listening to jazz is easily as important as practicing it if you want to get good.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 05 2012 at 18:00 |
It's a great site. More laid back. Not as much activity, but jazz isn't treated as an exclusive club. Obviously some things don't belong, and will never be there, but it is structured in the big tent approach. As a bonus it has a color scheme that annoys Henry Plainview.  I find nothing wrong with the fusion there or Prince, Joe Jackson, ECM artists that don't belong here...
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 05 2012 at 18:03
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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zwordser
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2008
Location: Southwest US
Status: Offline
Points: 1378
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Posted: January 05 2012 at 22:26 |
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I haven't quite lost interest in prog, but I worry about it happening because its some of the best music I've heard. So I "manage" my music listening, and take breaks from prog, usually to listen to something that sounds to me sort of "counter-prog" especially simple folk music or certain female vocals--something simply relaxing like Norah Jones.
Sometimes I'll listen to classical as well, but I'm already a little burned out on it (having already listened to it almost exclusively for 2-3 years a while back).
So, I can totally see your shifting of interest into classical as a natural step away from prog rock. Personally, if I were to make a top-10 list of the best musical works ever made regardless of genre, most of it would be classical (probably Holst's "The Planets" being at the top).
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Zombywoof
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 26 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1217
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Posted: January 05 2012 at 23:06 |
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I guess everyone's tastes shift as do musical moods. Personally, I haven't touched a Genesis record in months and have been listening to a ton of Zappa, after going years without picking up any of his stuff...
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Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 07:22 |
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I tend to binge on bands. Currently I'm playing Crimson, endlessly. Before that it was the Decemberists. For a while, I went back to 90's Indie music...
My tastes seem to cycle, but I've always come back to prog rock. That said, I've little interest in modern prog bands, who try to emulate classic prog bands. It just seems a little pointless tome, and not very 'progressive'
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 07:34 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 07:58 |
 Blacksword wrote:
My tastes seem to cycle, but I've always come back to prog rock. That said, I've little interest in modern prog bands, who try to emulate classic prog bands. It just seems a little pointless tome, and not very 'progressive' |
I don't agree modern prog bands try to emulate old prog bands. I think they try to write good songs. But then, I don't know what bands you actually mean so difficult to comment.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 08:06 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
My tastes seem to cycle, but I've always come back to prog rock. That said, I've little interest in modern prog bands, who try to emulate classic prog bands. It just seems a little pointless tome, and not very 'progressive' |
I don't agree modern prog bands try to emulate old prog bands. I think they try to write good songs. But then, I don't know what bands you actually mean so difficult to comment. |
Specifically the band I had in mind when I posted was Glass Hammer. I liked them for a while, but lost interest fairly quickly, when I realised that if I wanted music soaked in Moogs and Mellotrons there were far better classic bands who offer that. Also, the likes of Spocks Beard, Dream Theater and Citizen Cain, I find too derivative (that's not to say I've not appreciated them at times)
I think my point is, that if someone said to me today you've got to check this band out, they sound like Genesis, or whoever, I wouldn't feel compelled to investigate.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 08:14 |
Blacksword wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
My tastes seem to cycle, but I've always come back to prog rock. That said, I've little interest in modern prog bands, who try to emulate classic prog bands. It just seems a little pointless tome, and not very 'progressive' |
I don't agree modern prog bands try to emulate old prog bands. I think they try to write good songs. But then, I don't know what bands you actually mean so difficult to comment. |
Specifically the band I had in mind when I posted was Glass Hammer. I liked them for a while, but lost interest fairly quickly, when I realised that if I wanted music soaked in Moogs and Mellotrons there were far better classic bands who offer that. Also, the likes of Spocks Beard, Dream Theater and Citizen Cain, I find too derivative (that's not to say I've not appreciated them at times)
I think my point is, that if someone said to me today you've got to check this band out, they sound like Genesis, or whoever, I wouldn't feel compelled to investigate. |
It's funny people feel like this. If we were Blues fans we would expect to hear blues from a new blues band. From Spocks Beard i hear Prog. Which sounds like Spocks Beard and no one else.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 08:51 |
If new bands want to emulate the old ones, which at least a few of them definitely do, then fine! It is correct to say that they aren't progressive in spirit, but I personally listen to music based on the sound, not the ethical system behind that music's creation. But of course, if all one wants from prog is "that proggy sound", then there is no better place to look than the classic era.
Blues fans, as Snow Dog said, expect blues. They don't expect anything new. Some prog fans expect more than a particular sound, they expect innovation as well. But prog and innovation don't always correlate, which I think is the reason why some people are bored with certain current prog bands. My point, though, is that those classic-sound-emulating prog bands are doing nothing wrong.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 10:04 |
Blacksword wrote:
I think my point is, that if someone said to me today you've got to check this band out, they sound like Genesis, or whoever, I wouldn't feel compelled to investigate. |
Ditto. If I wanted format music, I would get myself format music. The whole reason I listen to prog is it doesn't - supposedly - impose on itself limitations the way format music does. And at least format music that way is more easily digested for all its being derivative; I personally cannot listen to a 20 minute track defined entirely or at least mostly by the sound and style of 70s bands. Take their compositional spirit by all means, but if even the tones are similar, I usually get bored. So it's at some level also about whether you dig the very idea of prog being involved and twisted or listen to prog because it challenges the norm. It's definitely the latter for me.
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 12:52 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
jazz isn't treated as an exclusive club.
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Oh boy. If only you knew, heh.* Some Jazzers make your average Progger look positively open-minded. "Jazz died after 1959" "Jazz died after 1949" "Jazz died with Bird" "Jazz died with the Duke" etc etc.
The funny thing about music is how much things change. New advances in jazz that were widely panned by critics at the time (Bitches Brew, anyone?) are now hailed by most jazz critics as being essential listening. I wonder how things will look to prog fans 20 years down the road from now, how differently they'll see things.
*I realize this might seem a bit patronizing and maybe condescending, but it isn't meant to be.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 15:26 |
KingCrimson250 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
jazz isn't treated as an exclusive club.
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Oh boy. If only you knew, heh.* Some Jazzers make your average Progger look positively open-minded. "Jazz died after 1959" "Jazz died after 1949" "Jazz died with Bird" "Jazz died with the Duke" etc etc.
The funny thing about music is how much things change. New advances in jazz that were widely panned by critics at the time (Bitches Brew, anyone?) are now hailed by most jazz critics as being essential listening. I wonder how things will look to prog fans 20 years down the road from now, how differently they'll see things.
*I realize this might seem a bit patronizing and maybe condescending, but it isn't meant to be. |
Actually I was referring to over at JMA. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 16:42 |
Snow Dog wrote:
It's funny people feel like this. If we were Blues fans we would expect to hear blues from a new blues band. From Spocks Beard i hear Prog. Which sounds like Spocks Beard and no one else. |
It's a compelling idea Snowie but flawed: Blues played on say, Moogs and Mellotrons is still recognisable as blues because of the underlying structures i.e. basically I-IV-V (regardless of any number of elaborations on those pivotal chords) Prog is not identifiable from any such time honoured devices. Although you are certainly not guilty of this, there are many on PA who confuse texture with style e.g. if it's got a sax or an electric piano it's jazzy, if it's got a Moog it's proggy etc  Brown Sugar features a brilliant sax solo (it ain't jazz) Crazy Horses features a Buchla Synth (it ain't prog)
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 16:51 |
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^ You could say that Prog was identifiable through certain song structures, which is the key thing, I think...... the sudden changes of key or time signatures rather than modulating gradually. But progressive itself is an approach, not a style, so you're correct that we can't pinpoint any actual features. 'Prog' has come to mean certain things though.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 06 2012 at 17:17 |
Blacksword wrote:
I think my point is, that if someone said to me today you've got to
check this band out, they sound like Genesis, or whoever, I wouldn't
feel compelled to investigate. |
Sometimes you have to have a point of reference. There is a qualitative difference from saying that some artists sound like Genesis and saying that they sound exactly like Genesis. That would be The Musical Box.
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 06 2012 at 17:17
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: January 07 2012 at 02:59 |
I think an ebbing and flowing and ever-changing view towards music is a reflection of a progressive mind, regardless of whether or not the opinion stated is necessarily accurate to any degree. I listen to so much "crap" that's not prog by any of the increasingly numerous definitions and pigeonholes, that I have a great balance of things that move me. I feel that if I find myself locked in to one particular genre or style in any majority sense, I'd have to turn in my prog card. Take a break from what you feel is "sterile" and "spineless" and boring and whatever else and find what hits your guts. Eventually it all flows back into your brain anyway.  The overarching factor is diversity itself.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 07 2012 at 06:28 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
I think my point is, that if someone said to me today you've got to
check this band out, they sound like Genesis, or whoever, I wouldn't
feel compelled to investigate. |
Sometimes you have to have a point of reference. There is a qualitative difference from saying that some artists sound like Genesis and saying that they sound exactly like Genesis. That would be The Musical Box.
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Yes, but the Musical Box is a Genesis tribute act, so the whole point is to sound 'just like' Genesis. I would go and see the MB, because Genesis don't exist as a recording/touring band right now, possibly never again, and the MB give the opportunity to hear that music played live, and authentically.
You're right, in that there are degrees of 'sounding like' someone else, but there is also a difference between 'sounding like' and being influenced by. Many 80's pop groups were influenced by late 70's/early 80's Genesis. I know for a fact that Go West, Simple Minds and the Police have all cited Genesis as an influence, in interviews in pop mags at the time, but generally sounded nothing like them.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 07 2012 at 07:23 |
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That's interesting I never heard that The Police cited Genesis as an influence. That might explain why I eventually got into them. That and the Summers/Fripp I Advanced Masked album.
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 07 2012 at 07:23
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Losing interest in prog
