Libertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!

Try moving to Cuba James.

horsewithteeth11 wrote: Out of curiosity James, in Britain do voters of a certain party often switch over to other parties or is party loyalty pretty solid for most peoples' lifetimes?

Most Labour voters stick to them but some like myself, who are more left, are disillusioned with what's on offer, whilst some closer to the right often do change their vote.

Tories voties are pretty much always Tory voters and I'm pretty sure that's the same with the Republicans.

Those who are in the middle and therefore Liberal Democrat voters are feeling very upset right now and many have defected from them.

My parents have always been loyal to one party.  My grandparents have as well.

Those brought up in a certain era are more likely to remain loyal too.  New Labour supporters though are more likely to defect because they haven't really witnessed the left as much as their forebears.

The problem though comes in when people tactically vote.  This happens all the time over here.

e.g.

An MP is only 1000 or so votes ahead from the previous election and so there's a chance of ousting that MP.  Especially if he's been terrible.  So whether he is Labour, Tory, Lib Dem or some other parties MP, many people will vote for the candidate behind them (from the last election) to try and get the MP out.

I find in general that staunch Labour voters will not vote for a Tory in order to oust a Lib Dem but a Labour supporter may vote for the Lib Dem or Green Candidate to oust the Tory.

As I said, Tories pretty much always vote Tory.

JJLehto wrote: Very simply, I'm a stubborn b*****d! I can't just abstain. I used to feel obliged to vote for the "main guys" and I've changed that. If I really though JoeBob was best I'd write him in. I can't just not vote though.

Then write in someone else's name.  Like FDR or something.

Brian... you're not a Republican.  So why do you feel obliged to vote in their primaries?

You never did before.  So why now?

Not voting makes no difference in Republican Primaries as you've never voted in a Republican Primary before (as far as I am aware).


Edited by James - January 05 2012 at 20:11

James wrote: JJLehto wrote: Very simply, I'm a stubborn b*****d! I can't just abstain. I used to feel obliged to vote for the "main guys" and I've changed that. If I really though JoeBob was best I'd write him in. I can't just not vote though. Then write in someone else's name.  Like FDR or something.

Not if I think someone is better.
And a dead guy?? When it gets to that point of desperation I will just write in the guys from Symphony X.
The county will be great if we all live in fantasy

Oh! Maybe take an odyssey to England and take you guys over and plunder and pillage. Then our government will document it via music


Edited by JJLehto - January 05 2012 at 20:12

JJLehto wrote: I have bad news for you James, economic liberalism (especially if you are a flat out socialist) is on its way out. The global market almost punishes it now. Look at Greece, turned to Socialism for its woes and things were made worse, in part because their policies just made their bond status drop even faster. Also, Greece is an example of poor, poor leftist government in action. Utter irresponsibility.

Greece needs to make severe cutbacks, but most of the time when I see their government suggest it, people riot. Greece is total insanity at this point. I think their best bet would be to simply default and restructure. People talk about default like it's the end of the world, but I guarantee that after such a thorough cleansing, at some point people would begin to buy Greek bonds again.

Brian, modern liberalism (read: Keynes) is dead. Classical liberalism (read: Hayek) is where it's at dawg.

It's never really been in in the first place, Brian.

Any form of Government can fail.  Socialism, Communism, Libertarianism, Conservatism... and that depends on the social climate at the time.  Not all models work all the time.

I'm not a mad Socialist.  I can accept changes need to be made as much of it outdated but much of it still relevant today as well.

I actually agree with David here.  Just default.  It's the best thing you can do.


Edited by James - January 05 2012 at 20:20

Because I don't feel obliged, I want to.
Also, Obama obviously has the democratic nomination so no chance there. Guess I could write in someone like Russ Feingold (Democrat) who is the US politician I truly agree with most...but since Paul is a fine enough alternative in my eyes I figure try for one who has any chance (admittedly I don't forsee it).

If not then yeah, by 2016 I'll write in random people and go apathetic.

Epignosis wrote: James wrote: I'm both, Rob. I'm not officially disenfranchised, as I'm sure the UK government feel it's completely fair to have only 3 major parties (none of which currently fit my views) but I feel disenfranchised because there really is nobody I want to vote for and I feel it's the fault of the terrible system being against me. I either have to vote for wishy-washy Liberalism or a right-wing government.  There's barely a left here now. Again, you are not disenfranchised.  That you are unhappy with the people running for office in your country doesn't mean you are disqualified from voting.  Having your right to vote taken away from you makes you disenfranchised. And if you don't like your Left, start a new one.

You missed my point, Rob.

I have a right to vote.  I never said I didn't.  I understand what the term means.

What I meant is that I feel I am disenfranchised, as to me, I feel I don't have a right to vote because there simply is nobody suitable for me.

I do vote by the way.  I've also never spoilt my paper.


Edited by James - January 05 2012 at 20:24

Again you fail to understand my point.

Oh well.

James wrote: Again you fail to understand my point. Oh well.

I understood your point.  You don't like the UK's political offerings. 

And as a result, you deliberately choose to misuse the term "disenfranchise."