Libertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!

Padraic wrote: James wrote: I meant the latter part, Brian. The article was indeed terrible and the comments were even worse. From some of the debates we've had before, I really cannot believe you're considering voting for him in the primaries. It's a Republican primary, James - who would be a better alternative?

^Absolutely nothing more I can add to that.

Also remember one needs to be realistic and not get lost in debate here, many things I like simply will not happen here in the US. Gotta go next best. Believe me, never thought I'd say it ever..but Paul is next best. Even if not a perfect fit and still a bit scary to think about.

Blacksword wrote: While I don't agree with Paul on everything, he is the only candidate actually challenging the power structure of the political establishment, and its crony relationship with Wall St.

This. 100 times this!
And while so many of my liberal, (and very liberal) friends would be shocked to hear it from me...the Dems have proven without doubt they are not going to do so. While the parties are punching each other, they got their arms in the pants of the same people!

Funny you mentioned Hamas and Israel...Paul is also the only person in politics who has dared question (and not that intensely even) the relationship we have with Israel and no one else will. A complex issue for sure but gotta admire his cojones. Israel is one of those subjects that is a political bomb. Hell, even just in real life discussions I saw a guy want to go to fists over it.


Edited by JJLehto - January 05 2012 at 10:38

Yeah, while the free market can obviously work my single biggest fear with Paul is the discomfort I have with applying the free market to everything. I still am not sure that is really a good way to handle every issue.

I do have to disagree and say even if you don't like it..he's not engaging in political BS, he is at least sincere in what he says.
I have to admit though, there's some validity there.

As usual it varies, but in a lot of places I believe energy is a patchwork and you are stuck with your patch.
Out in Pennsylvania (at least South Central) my town got kind of peeved there was one supplier, and could do nothing about their random and constant rate changes.
At a job fair here in NJ, I learned from one energy company the state is going to deregulate, again meaning you can at least have a choice and not stuck with one.

I do agree with him we need to use Nuclear Energy more, people need to get over the fear. Especially my fellow liberals.


Edited by JJLehto - January 05 2012 at 11:02

Well no one really denies climate change is happening, the debate is how much, (if at all) do we have in it? I'm inclined to believe we have a pretty decent hand in it, but even if we don't its irrelevant. It's still important to protect the environment. I'm a big believer in it, but as usual it is tough to navigate reality, what you want to believe, what others want you to etc  Also to remember everyone has their own interest. The government as it is now serves big business, including with regards to the environment. Can big businesses still buy their way out of pollution laws?

You are right (in what I think you're implying) there are not oceans of resources left. I havn't read about it but I know the Peak Oil theory. Pretty common sense...at some point the world will hit the maximum production of oil/gas/coal then start to decline, pretty rapidly and we have about 100 years left?

No doubt we need alternative energies, including nuclear, to be utilized.

"Well no one really denies climate change is happening."

I encourage anyone to read up more on the subject. There are certainly opportunists who are trying to make a buck on the issue, but it's very unlikely it was either created or inflated for that purpose. People are genuinely worried, and they have reason to be.

Ron Paul calls himself a free-market environmentalist. Same with that former really Red 68 youngster whose now the head of the Greens group in European Parliament.

Padraic wrote: James wrote: I meant the latter part, Brian. The article was indeed terrible and the comments were even worse. From some of the debates we've had before, I really cannot believe you're considering voting for him in the primaries. It's a Republican primary, James - who would be a better alternative?

Does everyone have the chance to vote, even if you lean toward the Democrats?

''cause I'd just not go out and vote if that was the case as the Republicans are vacuous.


Edited by James - January 05 2012 at 18:18

Blacksword wrote: As things heat up on the campaign trail, it will be interesting - and somewhat predictable - to see the attacks on Ron Paul. I think it was Huntsmen who recently produced a short film about Ron Paul, calling him crazy for claiming that Hamas was originally created by Israel, even though Israeli mainstream media even confirmed this. I also saw recently how CNN cut a live news feed, where the anchor was talking to a returning Iraq vet, who was talking up Ron Pauls anti war stance. While I don't agree with Paul on everything, he is the only candidate actually challenging the power structure of the political establishment, and its crony relationship with Wall St. For that reason, he will either be endlessly ridiculed, or possibly worse. The next 10 months or so, are going to be pretty crazy.

Yeah I just watched the video of that. What a wonderful thing the media is.

Gamemako wrote: The thing about climate change isn't that the free market won't catch up, it's that the free market will do irreparable harm before catching up (basically, tragedy of the commons).

The free market solution is to eliminate the tragedy of the commons not embrace it as the government solution does.