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OT Räihälä
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 09 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 514
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 06:21 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I must say I lose interest in prog. It just does not interest me anymore what new albums come out, with the odd exception. Jazz and classical music are much more interesting, in my opinion.. There is so much music to discover which expands my mind more than prog; why, completely exploring the works of Johann Sebastian Bach lone seems to be a task that would take a lifetime but would be much more fulfilling than wasting my time with so-called "new" prog albums which are more or less just an endless repetition of what has already been said.
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(Happy New Year to everybody!)
I guess a lot of prog fans are more fans of progressivity, i.e. not of prog as a music style, if we mean with prog all rock-related music that goes beyond the most common features of rock/pop music. That progressivity was more often found in the old prog rock of the late 60's / early to mid 70's, when artistic thinking in rock was not ridiculed by the music press, than nowadays when 9/10 bands sound unimaginative. Nowadays I think there are even more prog bands than there used to be 40 years ago, but very few of them are progressive in their thinking - and I think that is the thing that makes you lose your interest.
I agree with you that there's so much more to find in jazz and classical music. For example the new generation of Nordic jazz musicians (esp. Norway, Sweden and Finland) are nigh on revolutionizing the genre. And contemporary art music has stylistic and musical richness that pop/rock music can only dream of, but very few know any of these works because art music has become too marginal phenomenon; that music is seldom performed live and there are even fewer recordings. Of course there is still a lot to find in old classical music (and I believe the early 20th century music will speak to many prog fans) and I urge everyone who doesn't puke at hearing for example RIO/avant-prog to start listening to the art music of the last century.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14110
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 06:31 |
OT Räihälä wrote:
I believe the early 20th century music will speak to many prog fans |
It does
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 06:38 |
See what you mean there. I lost interest in prog a few years back, and then i went on into alternative rock, then electronic music and post-punk ad lately it's jazz. But during those periods of listening, i always played some prog album here and there (almost only old ones, though), and the interest slowly came back. Some newer prog bands are amazing, especially in the post-rock area, but other than a few, i'm not very into "modern" prog eiter.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17513
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 12:14 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I must say I lose interest in prog. It just does not interest me anymore what new albums come out, with the odd exception. Jazz and classical music are much more interesting, in my opinion.. There is so much music to discover which expands my mind more than prog; why, completely exploring the works of Johann Sebastian Bach lone seems to be a task that would take a lifetime but would be much more fulfilling than wasting my time with so-called "new" prog albums which are more or less just an endless repetition of what has already been said.
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I lost interest about 10 to 15 years ago, when the folks "discussing" the term and its terminology, did not know much about music and were not interested in placing this music within the context of all music ... it's way too kissypoo to rockband reviewers and kissers in many magazines ... it's about the star and never the music ... and the way that it was defined is as bizarre and unlike any music that anyone can ever compose, not to mention that if that one computer in Santa Cruz composes using all those ideas, everyone here in this board will say that it is pretentious and not good ... and all the metal'ists will hate it because it doesn't thrash enough and it's not loud enough .... and it never ends.
Worse part? Listening to music and its different elements and suggestions ... is always bypassed. Not cool enough and definitly not "fan" friendly at all ... because that is like suggesting that the fan is not intelligent ... in other words, it's not even about the music anymore!
The whole thing has become a definition of FAN ... and has nothing to do with music ... and at least, music history was put together on appreciation of music and its variety and its differences ... but here, it is almost all like ... it has to sound the same!
And that "same" is the one thing that is craziest for me ... just like some of the reviews here ... not prog enough because it doesn't sound like YES or ELP or ... whatever!
To me, "progressive" and then later "prog", were the first classical music of my time and place on this earth and I love these people dearly for having done it and tried it ... and I still respect Pete Townsend for saying that "Tommy" is a rock opera ... and folks here will still say it's not progressive ... and it is way more progressive in its entirety than more than half the top 100 listed at this site or any other "progressive" site ... where the numbers is about the fame and fortune, not the artist at all ... and maybe that is where the problem lies ... it needs to get off the "album" and placed on the artist ... and these people don't like artists, do not trust them, and think they are more evil than any other religion out there!
The main difference? 100 years ago it wasn't electric ... today it is ... and the age of accoustic is pretty much over ... for the next couple of hundred years I bet!
Oh well ... que sera, sera!
Edited by moshkito - January 02 2012 at 12:31
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13627
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 12:48 |
I really shouldn't have such a long break from the site in future. Four days away, and i have to plough through all of this lot
Anyways, I, for one, still find so much to enjoy in this great genre. In no other genre could you hear such a wide and eclectic range of rock music, and I am of the opinion that new music being produced today, at its best, is as good, and in some cases, better than the "classics" of the 1970's.
There has never been a better time to listen to great new music, and i am loving every single second of it.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 14:00 |
Tony R wrote:
Dean wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Originally posted by TODDLER
They say Grendel is just a recycling of Supper's Ready. Apart from one passage near the end which is in 9/8 time and has a very similar bass line, the structure, mood, melodies and subject matter are chalk and cheese. |
Grendel IS a recycling of Supper's ready from a band that was still setting up its sound. Grendel was released as a promo and didn't appear on any official album until B'sides Themselves. This doesn't mean that Marillion are a clone. They took inspiration from Genesis then developed their own style. Grendel is very distant from Misplaced Childhood isn't it? There should be a reason why I've been a fan of Marillion and I've never been a fan of Genesis.
Apart of this comment, prog is so various that I can loose interest in a part of it (currently I don't listen to much neo-prog), but my interest into other subgenres is increasing. |
Grendel was released on the b-side of the 12" version of Market Square Heroes in 1982 (an official EMI release not a Promo), hence it's inclusion on B'sides Themselves in '88. |
I have that 12" single, wonder if it's worth anything?
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It's worth listening to - often!!
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13351
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 14:23 |
OT Räihälä wrote:
(Happy New Year to everybody!)
I guess a lot of prog fans are more fans of progressivity, i.e. not of prog as a music style, if we mean with prog all rock-related music that goes beyond the most common features of rock/pop music. That progressivity was more often found in the old prog rock of the late 60's / early to mid 70's, when artistic thinking in rock was not ridiculed by the music press, than nowadays when 9/10 bands sound unimaginative. Nowadays I think there are even more prog bands than there used to be 40 years ago, but very few of them are progressive in their thinking - and I think that is the thing that makes you lose your interest.
I agree with you that there's so much more to find in jazz and classical music. For example the new generation of Nordic jazz musicians (esp. Norway, Sweden and Finland) are nigh on revolutionizing the genre. And contemporary art music has stylistic and musical richness that pop/rock music can only dream of, but very few know any of these works because art music has become too marginal phenomenon; that music is seldom performed live and there are even fewer recordings. Of course there is still a lot to find in old classical music (and I believe the early 20th century music will speak to many prog fans) and I urge everyone who doesn't puke at hearing for example RIO/avant-prog to start listening to the art music of the last century. |
Well said. This is exactly my point and pretty much how I feel. I'm not really into "Prog" as a genre (unless the music is well written and exciting), but of "Progressive music" which is more than just odd meters, long pieces, lots of solos, changes in tempo, etc. I've discovered many great musicians in other genres who would put prog musicians in shame by the quality of their play and compositions, and so much great music out there which would be rejected for not being "prog", which has better quality songwriting, arrangements, orchestration, etc. We just needs an open mind while listening, and the reward is fulfilling and satisfying.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 14:23 |
Grendel does borrow heavily from Supper's Ready but I don't hold it against the song. I still like it.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13627
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 14:27 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Grendel does borrow heavily from Supper's Ready but I don't hold it against the song. I still like it.
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Agreed. I think the point, though, in the context of this thread is just how much Marillion have "progressed" since Grendel, and the fact that they still make exciting and challenging music is a joy to behold.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8615
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 15:23 |
Manuel wrote:
OT Räihälä wrote:
(Happy New Year to everybody!)
I guess a lot of prog fans are more fans of progressivity, i.e. not of prog as a music style, if we mean with prog all rock-related music that goes beyond the most common features of rock/pop music. That progressivity was more often found in the old prog rock of the late 60's / early to mid 70's, when artistic thinking in rock was not ridiculed by the music press, than nowadays when 9/10 bands sound unimaginative. Nowadays I think there are even more prog bands than there used to be 40 years ago, but very few of them are progressive in their thinking - and I think that is the thing that makes you lose your interest.
I agree with you that there's so much more to find in jazz and classical music. For example the new generation of Nordic jazz musicians (esp. Norway, Sweden and Finland) are nigh on revolutionizing the genre. And contemporary art music has stylistic and musical richness that pop/rock music can only dream of, but very few know any of these works because art music has become too marginal phenomenon; that music is seldom performed live and there are even fewer recordings. Of course there is still a lot to find in old classical music (and I believe the early 20th century music will speak to many prog fans) and I urge everyone who doesn't puke at hearing for example RIO/avant-prog to start listening to the art music of the last century. |
Well said. This is exactly my point and pretty much how I feel. I'm not really into "Prog" as a genre (unless the music is well written and exciting), but of "Progressive music" which is more than just odd meters, long pieces, lots of solos, changes in tempo, etc. I've discovered many great musicians in other genres who would put prog musicians in shame by the quality of their play and compositions, and so much great music out there which would be rejected for not being "prog", which has better quality songwriting, arrangements, orchestration, etc. We just needs an open mind while listening, and the reward is fulfilling and satisfying. |
I also feel that the mid to late 19th Century classical music (the Late Romantics) is something that could speak to prog fans as well-Berlioz, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, Franck, Liszt, Mahler-myself, i like that music for the same reasons i do good prog-a wedding of cerebral, complex technique and real gutsy emotion in the same breath
Edited by presdoug - January 02 2012 at 15:30
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 15:56 |
About "Electronic"ized Future; in my opinion beauty of music is mostly in instruments like flutes, percussions and ancient guitars.You can feel their pureness in your blood while you playing them.A tiny IC hardly give you such deepness. During the whole history of human life, these simple instruments entertained peoples greatly.Fake sounds just spoil this originality.Unless those electric stuff go to introduce totally new sounds, though I believe, it's better to take this effort for making new natural stuff, say, a new flute made from Chinese sugarcane .(I know, it's like a joke, but I wasn't sarcastic)
I used to love aggressiveness in melodies and chords, but now not much, I'm more calm and my mind is more peaceful compare to earlier.It made me appreciate autochthonous(local) musics, like African, Chinese, Latino, Indian, Middle Eastern, Scandinavian, and so on. Still enjoy classic prog and jazz fusions, though.
Edited by progprogprog - January 02 2012 at 17:28
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 16:12 |
progprogprog wrote:
About "Electronic"ized Future; in my opinion beauty of music is mostly in instruments like flutes, percussions and ancient guitars.You can feel their pureness in your blood while you playing them.A tiny IC hardly give you such deepness. During the whole history of human life, these simple instruments entertained peoples greatly.Fake sounds just spoil this originality.Unless those electric stuff that introduce totally new sounds, though I believe, it's better to take this effort for making new natural stuff, say, a new flute made from Chinese sugarcane .(I know, it's like a joke, but I wasn't sarcastic)
I used to love aggressiveness in melodies and chords, but now not much, I'm more calm and my mind is more peaceful compare to earlier.It made me appreciate autochthonous(local) musics, like African, Chinese, Latino, Indian, Middle Eastern, Scandinavian, and so on. Still enjoy classic prog and jazz fusions, though.
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The beauty of the acoustic instrument is that it is easy to pick up and put down. I still love electronics and hardly consider them to be fake.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35836
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:01 |
I tend to prefer electronics when it's not simulating acoustic instruments.
I'm not that into Prog proper, but I do love a lot of progressive music and a lot of music that is in and that relates to the music that PA puts under the Prog umbrella. I'm more likely to be listening to 60s and 70s library music than Prog genre music. I'm still extensively into various categories at PA very much such as RIO/Avant (my infatuation with Art Zoyd never seems to go away), Krautrock, Electronic, JRF, Canterbury and Zeuhlish music. And I do love a lot of musique concrete, jazz, folk, ethnic music, and classical (using the term generally).
Included in the 'chives, I tend to return to Art Zoyd, Wakhevitch, Hancock and Davis the most, but also Cos, Spirogyra, Magma, Tangerine Dream, Can, Area etc.
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:03 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
The beauty of the acoustic instrument is that it is easy to pick up and put down. I still love electronics and hardly consider them to be fake.
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You love electronics! Man, it doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't it couldn't
Just kidding buddy.If you mean progressive electronic kinda thing, I must say it's quite innovative, and absolutely deserve considering it.I point those things out(in my previous post), because IMO nowadays most bands tend to make things too electronic, you know.
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Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:12 |
^ you need to change your username.
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What?
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:14 |
Dean wrote:
^ you need to change your username. |
^ Any suggestions!?
Edited by progprogprog - January 02 2012 at 18:15
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Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:16 |
Personally I like the sound of a synth just as much as much as the sound of any acoustic or normal electrified instrument.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:17 |
progprogprog wrote:
Dean wrote:
^ you need to change your username. |
^ Any suggestions!?
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Dickhead?
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progprogprog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:20 |
Snow Dog wrote:
progprogprog wrote:
Dean wrote:
^ you need to change your username. |
^ Any suggestions!?
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Dickhead? |
Don't like that one, thank you anyway.
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Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 02 2012 at 18:20 |
progprogprog wrote:
Dean wrote:
^ you need to change your username. |
^ Any suggestions!? |
Several. None of them printable.
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What?
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