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refugee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote refugee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2011 at 16:34
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

Very interesting, good post.
I'd already read about this changing of names, but never actually heard about a real case.
I imagine the same happened with the basque or gallego names? 
 
Well, a first thing is that unlike catalan, both basque and gallego share the same phonetic transcription as castilian (or castellano as we call it) so there was little if anything to be changed in this respect. Spelling and pronounciation rules are the same as in castellano.
 
A second thing is that Franco was gallego (from El Ferrol) so even if he also tried to convert Galicia to using castellano he was always protective of this region and did not harrass them as he did with basques and catalans.
 
On the other hand, basque has very weird, completely alien sounding names which have nothing to do with castilian names (or with any latin language for what matters). With no spelling to be changed and no translation possible, he did not dare to change radically the family names of the basque people, that would have been too weird, but what he did is forbidding all the basque traditional first names. So for example you could not name your child Gorka, you had to name him something like Pedro, Juan or Jose.
 
Eventually after the transition Basque people also got the chance to apply for changing their first names to basque names, but in the basque case it was not about a simple translation, the chosen basque name probably had nothing to do with the castilian one.
 
Besides people's names he also changed the name of cities, towns, streets, mountains, rivers, whatever, to make them sound more castilian, mostly in Catalunya but also in the basque country, for example the basque cities of Donosti and Gasteiz were renamed respectively as San Sebastian and Vitoria (as you see not a simple translation like from Gerard to Gerardo), and actually many people and quite a few maps still use these castilian names, I guess with places people are less sensitive than with their own names so even if the official names are now again the basques, you can still frequently hear the castilian ones (by the way this can be very confusing for tourists! )
 


I read your posts and found them highly interesting. Not that it surprises me that a b*****d like Franco even forced you to change names, I just didn’t know it.

So, once again linking your information to the topic: Not really "obscure prog facts", but the Spanish violinist, composer and music teacher Ricardo Odriozola is highly influenced by prog:

http://www.ricardoodriozola.com/bio.htm

He grew up in a Basque town. The name "Ricardo" doesn’t seem strange at all, and though I don’t know about any other Odriozolas, it doesn’t sound weird. Could it be that he’s a Basque who had to change his name and later chose to keep his new name, possibly because he went abroad to study and work?
He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2011 at 16:15
Originally posted by refugee refugee wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Luca Pacchiarini Luca Pacchiarini wrote:

Very interesting, good post.
I'd already read about this changing of names, but never actually heard about a real case.
I imagine the same happened with the basque or gallego names? 
 
Well, a first thing is that unlike catalan, both basque and gallego share the same phonetic transcription as castilian (or castellano as we call it) so there was little if anything to be changed in this respect. Spelling and pronounciation rules are the same as in castellano.
 
A second thing is that Franco was gallego (from El Ferrol) so even if he also tried to convert Galicia to using castellano he was always protective of this region and did not harrass them as he did with basques and catalans.
 
On the other hand, basque has very weird, completely alien sounding names which have nothing to do with castilian names (or with any latin language for what matters). With no spelling to be changed and no translation possible, he did not dare to change radically the family names of the basque people, that would have been too weird, but what he did is forbidding all the basque traditional first names. So for example you could not name your child Gorka, you had to name him something like Pedro, Juan or Jose.
 
Eventually after the transition Basque people also got the chance to apply for changing their first names to basque names, but in the basque case it was not about a simple translation, the chosen basque name probably had nothing to do with the castilian one.
 
Besides people's names he also changed the name of cities, towns, streets, mountains, rivers, whatever, to make them sound more castilian, mostly in Catalunya but also in the basque country, for example the basque cities of Donosti and Gasteiz were renamed respectively as San Sebastian and Vitoria (as you see not a simple translation like from Gerard to Gerardo), and actually many people and quite a few maps still use these castilian names, I guess with places people are less sensitive than with their own names so even if the official names are now again the basques, you can still frequently hear the castilian ones (by the way this can be very confusing for tourists! )
 


I read your posts and found them highly interesting. Not that it surprises me that a b*****d like Franco even forced you to change names, I just didn’t know it.

So, once again linking your information to the topic: Not really "obscure prog facts", but the Spanish violinist, composer and music teacher Ricardo Odriozola is highly influenced by prog:

http://www.ricardoodriozola.com/bio.htm

He grew up in a Basque town. The name "Ricardo" doesn’t seem strange at all, and though I don’t know about any other Odriozolas, it doesn’t sound weird. Could it be that he’s a Basque who had to change his name and later chose to keep his new name, possibly because he went abroad to study and work?
 
Hi Refugee, glad that you found my posts interesting!
 
Personally I don't know about Ricardo Odriozola. Being spanish I can tell that Odriozola is clarly a basque family name, but as i said such basque family names have no conflict with castilian, the spelling and pronounciation are exactly the same in basque as in castilian, so Franco did not bother to change them.
 
He did forbid the first names which are basque-only and do not exist in castilian normal culture (such as Gorka, Itziar or many others, the general rule is that castilian is a catholic culture using christian names while basque was a pagan culture so many of its first names have no equivalent in the christian-name-catalog, Franco forbid all names which were not rooted in the christian culture).
 
Ricardo is a perfectly normal castilian first name so there are 2 possibilities:
1. His parents genuinely named him Ricardo, so no problem about it.
2. His parents wanted to give him some other basque name, but because if was forbidden they set for the officially acceptable Ricardo. It this was the case it can be that he just got used to the name of Ricardo and didn't bother to change it even when law made that possible (I have friends in the same situation, they got a name because of Franco's constrains but by the time they had possibility to change it they were so used to it that they did not bother to change it).
 
Persoanlly I don't know which is the real case for Ricardo Odriozola.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sturoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2011 at 23:07
You guys are detouring down a different path from the OP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huperkarl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2011 at 12:56
uergen · Fritz · Above Germany breeze bandage Triumvirat in contempo years accept been autograph and arena music of Germany accompanist zhangyurenengeer, which aswell afresh included as a advancement singer, is the sister of the above guitar player/singer after Hellmut · Koellen,Triumvirat, and had continued careers, including altered artists accomplishing abetment vocals of the Triumvirat Elke Schlimbach, Hellmut Koellen abandoned records.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2011 at 12:58
Originally posted by huperkarl huperkarl wrote:

uergen · Fritz · Above Germany breeze bandage Triumvirat in contempo years accept been autograph and arena music of Germany accompanist zhangyurenengeer, which aswell afresh included as a advancement singer, is the sister of the above guitar player/singer after Hellmut · Koellen,Triumvirat, and had continued careers, including altered artists accomplishing abetment vocals of the Triumvirat Elke Schlimbach, Hellmut Koellen abandoned records.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2011 at 13:02
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by huperkarl huperkarl wrote:

uergen · Fritz · Above Germany breeze bandage Triumvirat in contempo years accept been autograph and arena music of Germany accompanist zhangyurenengeer, which aswell afresh included as a advancement singer, is the sister of the above guitar player/singer after Hellmut · Koellen,Triumvirat, and had continued careers, including altered artists accomplishing abetment vocals of the Triumvirat Elke Schlimbach, Hellmut Koellen abandoned records.
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Ah, the fresh smell of prime chopped pork with ham forced into a can and cooked to death... yum Approve
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2011 at 16:21
Walter Becker of Steely Dan took guitar lessons from Randy California of Spirit. They lived in the same neighborhood in New York. This happened before Steely Dan, of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2011 at 16:25
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by huperkarl huperkarl wrote:

uergen · Fritz · Above Germany breeze bandage Triumvirat in contempo years accept been autograph and arena music of Germany accompanist zhangyurenengeer, which aswell afresh included as a advancement singer, is the sister of the above guitar player/singer after Hellmut · Koellen,Triumvirat, and had continued careers, including altered artists accomplishing abetment vocals of the Triumvirat Elke Schlimbach, Hellmut Koellen abandoned records.
Whoa! ShockedConfused
Ah, the fresh smell of prime chopped pork with ham forced into a can and cooked to death... yum Approve
Well, Jurgen Fritz is still a going concern in the Germany area, as the director of the JFO Jurgen Fritz Orchestra, and as composer and keyboardist for the Tommy Engel Band.
        Also working with Jurgen at times is singer Elke Schlimbach, who is the surviving sister of the late Helmut Koellen, former musician and vocalist for Triumvirat. She had a long career as a background vocalist, also working with the Tommy Engel Band, but has tried lately being a main vocalist for her own band (there is even something on youtube to that effect)

    Oh, and thanks huperkarl for your post, and welcome to PA!Tongue


Edited by presdoug - December 13 2011 at 16:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:24
Rocker Billy Idol likes the music of the Mahavishnu Orchestra (who would figure?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2011 at 03:28
Jethro Tull's original manager Terry Ellis was Karen Carpenter's partner (and not just business) for a period of time in the 70s.

The other strange fact is that Ellis has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame while Tull still remain on the outer as far as this award is concerned even after 43 years in the business and more than 60 million record sales.

Anderson must have paid out on this institution big time not to get inducted. No?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ClemofNazareth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2011 at 05:52

Randy California of Spirit was offered a job playing with Jimi Hendrix Experience by Hendrix himself when Randy was only 15 but he couldn't join because his mother wouldn't let him.  He formed the band Spirit with his step-father Ed Cassidy instead.  

BTW the name 'Randy California' was Hendrix' idea.

Noel Redding of the Experience played on the Spirit album 'Kapt. Kopter & The (Fabulous) Twirly-Birds' but under a pseudonym to avoid legal issues with his label.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2011 at 07:46
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Rocker Billy Idol likes the music of the Mahavishnu Orchestra (who would figure?)
 
 
Well his guitarist Steve Stevens made 2 pretty good fusion-prog albums with Tony Levin and Terry Bozzio. Actually I had no idea who Stevens was until I heard those and I was quite impressed by his guitar playing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2011 at 08:26
Snooker legend Steve Davies is a prog fan, especially of Magma.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 23:59
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Rocker Billy Idol likes the music of the Mahavishnu Orchestra (who would figure?)
 
You just reminded me that Lady Gaga's BFF Lady Starlight (the deejay girl who opens a lot of Gaga's shows) is a serious Van der Graaf Generator fan. Apologies if this has already been mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyperprisms Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2012 at 03:51
Originally posted by paganinio paganinio wrote:

prog metal band connections:

5. King Crimson and Porcupine Tree
Robert Fripp played on the title track of Fear of a Blank Planet.

And Tony Levin played bass on 3 tracks on Steven Wilson's "Insurgentes" album 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spiritinthesky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2012 at 02:19
Some great facts here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2012 at 03:53
Toni Tenille did backing vocals on Pink Floyd's "The Wall".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2012 at 04:35
Originally posted by Hyperprisms Hyperprisms wrote:

Originally posted by paganinio paganinio wrote:

prog metal band connections:

5. King Crimson and Porcupine Tree
Robert Fripp played on the title track of Fear of a Blank Planet.

And Tony Levin played bass on 3 tracks on Steven Wilson's "Insurgentes" album 


Alex Lifeson played on the song Anesthetize of that same album (Fear of A Black Planet). But maybe nobody mentioned it, because Lifeson is not so obscure as Robert Fripp!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Windhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2012 at 04:47
Prog metal fans might not know that Mekong Delta main man Ralph Hubert was involved in German band Schwarzarbeit (the latter added to PA earlier today).

And metal fans might want to investigate Mercyful Fate guitarist Michael Denner's involvement in some of the later productions courtesy of Robin Taylor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinprog77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2012 at 05:19
Originally posted by ClemofNazareth ClemofNazareth wrote:


BTW the name 'Randy California' was Hendrix' idea.




true ,the name was given to him by Hendrix to distinguish him from another Randy in the band [ randy Texas ] 
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