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philippe View Drop Down
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Points: 3597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 15:31
Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

^ The most recent (or one of) artist he personally added, The Present Moment, is also not signed and with its albums up on Bandcamp, for which you can name your price. And that band still makes little to no sense why it's been added.

I still do not understand the prog value of this.


your declaration is pure no sense. Arguments please....

First of all they are officialy signed. Secondly I was asked to add them by their label which is obviously electronic orientated and largely devoted to "minimal-synth" (you should go back to some classics related to the genesis and history of the genre before to advance things)....but well I will delete the add...I don't care at all finally.

About Vompatti : I've already explained my views. I won't go back on my decision, whatever the pressure
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 15:10
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

What is the definition of a "self-release", anyway?  All of Anekdoten's albums have been released on their own personal label, Virta. Is that self-release?  If not, why not?  Same with echolyn, I believe, except for as the world. And I'm sure there are many more.
The PA has never blocked self-release albums - we treat self-released as "signed" if an album is available for purchase, therefore the band is automatically eligible for evaluation by a genre team. This is NOT the same as artiusts whose output is solely free-releases or free-downloads.
 
 
 



Then how do you deal with an artist who releases his music as name-your-price downloads ?

As a submissable band as long as the other criterias is there. You can choose to pay money too if you want. Surprisingly many does actually do that. 

Weird. As vomps was rejected

He sent us a case of Napoleon VSUP instead of a case of Napoleon VSOP. Geek

Sorry, I don't know why. It is Saturday night.  


  
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Points: 24646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:49
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

4 pages for the inclusion of Vomps? My, isn't he becoming the Most Important Wombat in History? 
 
Just 4 pages. You apparently forgot this thread in which you have posted yourself, even at page 1. The chief recurrent topic in this 76-page thread is wombats.
 
Lamp But I have a suggestion: maybe it is time for PA to start its own label and sign some members who make music (Vompatti, Dean, Man Overboard - my apologies to ye guys for not having listened to your music yet) so that they can be included in PA in their proper categories. In the meantime I might think of putting some of my songs online that I wrote in the 80's - supposed that I want to be suggested for Prog Folk WinkTongue.
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Points: 10185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:38
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

What is the definition of a "self-release", anyway?  All of Anekdoten's albums have been released on their own personal label, Virta. Is that self-release?  If not, why not?  Same with echolyn, I believe, except for as the world. And I'm sure there are many more.
The PA has never blocked self-release albums - we treat self-released as "signed" if an album is available for purchase, therefore the band is automatically eligible for evaluation by a genre team. This is NOT the same as artiusts whose output is solely free-releases or free-downloads.
 
 
 



Then how do you deal with an artist who releases his music as name-your-price downloads ?

As a submissable band as long as the other criterias is there. You can choose to pay money too if you want. Surprisingly many does actually do that. 

Weird. As vomps was rejected

 

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Because of the signed/unsigned/free releases thing
 

A reevaluation should be necessary, right?
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:34
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

What is the definition of a "self-release", anyway?  All of Anekdoten's albums have been released on their own personal label, Virta. Is that self-release?  If not, why not?  Same with echolyn, I believe, except for as the world. And I'm sure there are many more.
The PA has never blocked self-release albums - we treat self-released as "signed" if an album is available for purchase, therefore the band is automatically eligible for evaluation by a genre team. This is NOT the same as artiusts whose output is solely free-releases or free-downloads.
 
 
 



Then how do you deal with an artist who releases his music as name-your-price downloads ?

As a submissable band as long as the other criterias is there. You can choose to pay money too if you want. Surprisingly many does actually do that. 

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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:24
4 pages for the inclusion of Vomps? My, isn't he becoming the Most Important Wombat in History? 
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Points: 67457 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:16
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Sorry Vomps. This nonsense has nothing to do with you. Personally, I love your music and always have done.
 
 
 
For anyone likes Vomps' music, another member here who has created some wonderful music is Aaron Jennings (Man OverBoard) www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45902.
omg k

I don't mind k

Also the policies I browsed through seem fairly reasonable to me.
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Points: 10185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:11
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

What is the definition of a "self-release", anyway?  All of Anekdoten's albums have been released on their own personal label, Virta. Is that self-release?  If not, why not?  Same with echolyn, I believe, except for as the world. And I'm sure there are many more.
The PA has never blocked self-release albums - we treat self-released as "signed" if an album is available for purchase, therefore the band is automatically eligible for evaluation by a genre team. This is NOT the same as artiusts whose output is solely free-releases or free-downloads.
 
 
 


Then how do you deal with an artist who releases his music as name-your-price downloads?
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The Neck Romancer View Drop Down
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Points: 10185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:09
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

I remember a post by Dean (I think) in which he condemned label-less artists as apparently if you're not on a label your music must not be good enough.


I'm too lazy to look for it and yep, I may have synthetised his opinion in a blunt, perhaps distorted way, but looks like the admin team or at least him are against unsigned acts.

Bollocks. Real ones (not yours). If you're too Censoreding lazy to look something up then don't misrepresent what you think I Censoreding said - that's not being lazy, that's being Censoreding ignorant. Congratulations you have now joined a very elite group of individuals on this forum who have managed to make me Censoreding angry. Angry
 
If that is all you managed to take away from the thousands of words I have written on the subject of unsigned bands, self-release and free-downloads then I clearly have been wasting my bloody time.
 
For your information I was the prime mover behind adopting the free-release policy within the PA that allows Genre Teams to decide for themselves whether they allow "unsigned" bands into their subgenres if they self-release albums by free-issue downloads only.

Hey, calm down.


My lack of access to the Collab Zone and collab discussions on this thread's subject, combined with the little time I spent on the prog music lounges surely make me no worthy of making assumptions.


I'm sorry if my post didn't have enough warnings about my possible misinterpretation of the post I was mentioning, and I'm really sorry for understanding your point the wrong way. Do you remember which thread I was talking about? I don't think your post on it is older than 3 months.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 14:02
Sorry Vomps. This nonsense has nothing to do with you. Personally, I love your music and always have done.
 
 
 
For anyone likes Vomps' music, another member here who has created some wonderful music is Aaron Jennings (Man OverBoard) www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45902.
What?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 13:56
Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Because of the signed/unsigned/free releases thing. 


What absolute bollocks. That's an absurd policy in the year 2011.


What exactly is absurd?


Record labels are a defunct idea by this point. Free self-releases are becoming more and more ubiquitous, and it's nonsensical to reject this music (which CLEARLY fits into the site) on the basis of how it's released.


Eh? We've made it already possible for free releases to get in, it's been almost a year now.


Then why doesn't Vomps qualify? (I'm actually asking; maybe there's something I don't know about the policy.)


The free releases policy was made to adjust the PA submission process to help pro bands and dedicated musicians that happen to release their music for free go through, while discerning them from bedroom projects or people creating music on a computer for fun, which PA is not about. Not that this should read that we consider bedroom projects and the likes as bad things, it's just where we chose to set the bar (we can't host all music created).


But if the music fits, why not? By those standards, professionalism (regardless if it's free or not) is an important standard for inclusion. So, does this mean that we take Simon Railton off?

My point is: it's inconsistent. If music fits on the site under a certain genre, then it should be included.


Huh?  I was the final vote for Simon Railton.  He is on the Musea label, which ultimately swayed my decision.

That said, I tend to be more liberal about free-releases.  Music is music is music is music.


No, he should certainly stay. I'm just saying that under these supposed guidelines (which I disagree with), he should be removed. I was just using him as an example to criticize the guidelines.
Rob has said Railton is on the Musea label. His album is currently being sold for 9.90€. He's automatically eligible for evaluation by any team and has nothing to do with any guidlelines.
 
 
ffs, the degree of missinformation flying around this thread is bloody embarassing. Learn how the site works or stfu.
What?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 13:29
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

What is the definition of a "self-release", anyway?  All of Anekdoten's albums have been released on their own personal label, Virta. Is that self-release?  If not, why not?  Same with echolyn, I believe, except for as the world. And I'm sure there are many more.
The PA has never blocked self-release albums - we treat self-released as "signed" if an album is available for purchase, therefore the band is automatically eligible for evaluation by a genre team. This is NOT the same as artiusts whose output is solely free-releases or free-downloads.
 
 
 
What?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 13:12
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

I remember a post by Dean (I think) in which he condemned label-less artists as apparently if you're not on a label your music must not be good enough.


I'm too lazy to look for it and yep, I may have synthetised his opinion in a blunt, perhaps distorted way, but looks like the admin team or at least him are against unsigned acts.

Bollocks. Real ones (not yours). If you're too Censoreding lazy to look something up then don't misrepresent what you think I Censoreding said - that's not being lazy, that's being Censoreding ignorant. Congratulations you have now joined a very elite group of individuals on this forum who have managed to make me Censoreding angry. Angry
 
If that is all you managed to take away from the thousands of words I have written on the subject of unsigned bands, self-release and free-downloads then I clearly have been wasting my bloody time.
 
For your information I was the prime mover behind adopting the free-release policy within the PA that allows Genre Teams to decide for themselves whether they allow "unsigned" bands into their subgenres if they self-release albums by free-issue downloads only.
 
 
What?
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infocat View Drop Down
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Points: 4671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 10:34
What is the definition of a "self-release", anyway?  All of Anekdoten's albums have been released on their own personal label, Virta. Is that self-release?  If not, why not?  Same with echolyn, I believe, except for as the world. And I'm sure there are many more.
--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.
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Points: 10185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 09:46
It'd be just like Senmuth's discography only without any ratings over 2 stars.
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 09:20
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

 

A case in point - Merzbow has not been added to the PA but Aube has - what's the difference - they are both noise artists. Is one noisier than the other? Who decided that?

Merzbow, in my opinion, has more prog value than Aube. Not only did Merzbow's career start much earlier (IIRC), but more of Merzbow's compositions have longer time lengths for the compositions to progress throughout multiple feels, and many of his albums are conceptual. I think both Merzbow and Aube deserve a place here, but Merzbow is the more deserving of a progressive title. They're both more progressive than most of the noise I have. I'm not here to disagree with Philippe's decisions though.


Also, adding the Merzbow discography to this site would be a biiiiiiiiitch and it would only result in bad reviews galore.


Edited by colorofmoney91 - December 10 2011 at 09:30
Hanashukketsu
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 08:58
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

But well, the point of the discussion was originally the inclusion of self-releasing artists. Why are some allowed to enter and others aren't, even though the admin team says they're unsigned acts and therefore inegilible.



It's up to the individual genre teams.  Bands that are not signed to a record label are not automatically ineligible for inclusion.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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The Neck Romancer View Drop Down
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Points: 10185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 08:39

That's up to Philippe :/


But well, the point of the discussion was originally the inclusion of self-releasing artists. Why are some allowed to enter and others aren't, even though the admin team says they're unsigned acts and therefore inegilible.


And I know a member that probably knows more about prog electronic than our friend Ricochet.
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Points: 1241 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 07:06
Originally posted by irrelevant irrelevant wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:


Record labels are a defunct idea by this point. Free self-releases are becoming more and more ubiquitous, and it's nonsensical to reject this music (which CLEARLY fits into the site) on the basis of how it's released.

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Ok, but about Vompatti? Will add or not?



"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 05:35
Awesome discussion - so what has become of this then? A verdict?
my thoughts
To include an artist should require a minimum of three votes - As we do on the Symphonic Team, we have to come to a mutual agreement whether a band is added or not or it is passed on. It works well as a system because team members can be accountable and take our opinions into considerations while we vote. Some are obvious, others we need to collaborate more. The point is it works. I would hate to think an artist is not added because one man decided it was not and his vote was all that mattered being the only one on the team. It does not seem fair to the artist.

A case in point - Merzbow has not been added to the PA but Aube has - what's the difference - they are both noise artists. Is one noisier than the other? Who decided that?


Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - December 10 2011 at 05:36
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