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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
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It seems like the word "trade union" no longer means workers standing shoulder to shoulder. The new definition of this previously honourable term means workers selling each others down the river for a fistful of banknotes. We are all equal, but some are more equal than others. In case some wonder. The new meaning of the term Trade Union here in the UK is now that "an union of likeminded individuals fighting for their special privileges paid for by lower paid workers in other sectors of the economy paying higher taxes and working longer to fund these priveleges". I am thoroughly disgusted. And I see no future for the trade unions movement after they walked into this trap as a bull running into a Spanish bull fighting arena. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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Guess things really aren't that different in different countries after all.
I know back in the day (before my day) unions were indeed honorable (not to all) and about workers rights but by today they are viewed by most in the US with huge skepticism and negativity. Even though in theory I support the idea, in real life it's as you said Torodd. They are pretty much useless, and just use its members to get a lot of money for themselves. Also they act foolishly. The state of NJ is in a bad financial situation but the teachers union here is sending people to our door and lobbying for MORE spending on them. Not only that, the idea of them contributing to their own pensions sent them up a wall, even though the firemen and police have to contribute to their own. Pretty much only they don't, aren't willing to do so and then want more from us! What a bunch of selfish kids... and I'm a HUGE supporter of teachers even! Edited by JJLehto - November 30 2011 at 19:18 |
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
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Tosh! I assume you are saying the Unions shouldn't fight for the pension rights of the Public Workers You know the ones they agreed when they signed up to work in the public sector. I suppose you have bought this line that we should get the same pension rights as the private sector who have ben sold out by their pension providers. Rather than fight for everyone to get a decent pension after all that would be stupid wouldn't it. Of course its not a problem private pensions getting tax relief ie being subsidised by you and me. But if the public sector is then they should bloody well accept the real world where nobodyy has a decent pension. The Government wants to split public and private so they can do what the f**k they want.
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Help me I'm falling!
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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I will admit that some unions are not very good at protecting the interests of workers and some of the union bosses are more interested in lining their own pockets as opposed to protecting the workers. But what I can't understand is why others in the middle class demonize workers uniting at all to protect their rights. I heard it a lot in discussions with people about Scott (der fuhrer) Walker's union-busting. Also, I've heard conservatives blast government workers because they often have better benefits and wages and working conditions than the private sector. Ok. That is often the case. The response to that should not be to make working conditions worse for government workers, but to make conditions better for those who labor in the private sector. Let's raise private sector wages and benefits for the workers at the bottom and lower them for the workers at the top. Then there would be more parity and the conservatives could stop their complaining about how "overpaid" public sector workers are. Finally, on the subject of teachers, what ever happened to the old adage you get what you pay for? I love conservatives who want to decrease teacher pay and benefits yet want to hold them to the highest of standards. When you're paying a teacher $30K a year (barely a livable wage) and pack them in classes with 35 students, you can't expect these teachers to turn out 35 Einsteins. You want quality teachers, pay them more, and reduce class sizes. Then you will attract better, more capable teachers. But of course that doesn't fit in with the overall conservative plan to dumb down america in order to create a cheap labor force for our corporate masters.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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You can pay teachers all you want. When your system of education consists of treating kids like prisoners, training them in rote memorization like dogs, teaching them to never question authority, etc. you not going to turn out anything.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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Funny. I didn't have that experience when I was in school. But that was in the 80's, and I know things have changed somewhat. I had excellent teachers and thought that I received a good education. In a public school, btw.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
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Precisely. You can pay me six figures and there's no way I could completely fix what 11 years of recent public education has sent my way. Edited by Epignosis - December 01 2011 at 16:07 |
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
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In the real world, there is something called money. The lack of it, that is. |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
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A good education entails making sweeping generalizations and treating exceptions as though they're the rule? |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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As a matter of fact it does.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
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And the Hutton enquiry said the public sector pensions are affordable and sustainable.
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Help me I'm falling!
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
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Just checking. |
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
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Hi Akamaisondufromage. We are here debating best case scenario from yesterday. Today, that is history and the screw on the Spanish Inquisition torture instrument we are all attached to now has been tightened tonight. I work myself in the public sector and I am in the 40s, age wise. If the retirement age when I and people of my age retire is not 75 and I am not paying at least twice of what I pay in today with a 20 % effective loss of purchase power , I will gladly call you God, build a religious cult around you and give you a shiny sports car as a sign of my appreciation. The party is over. You can write resolutions until you get blue in your face. But the party is over and the screws on the Spanish Inquisition torture instrument you and I is attached to will be tightened more and more and more. And there is nothing you can do with it. Nothing. I hope you had a good demo yesterday. Staying fit and getting fresh air is very important. Even when doing pointless excersises like yesterday's walks. Edited by toroddfuglesteg - December 01 2011 at 16:32 |
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7003 |
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I was on the picket line yesterday and later at the rally on Victoria embankment. Under the banner 'Fair Pensions For All' the rhetoric of the 30 unions involved was that, rather than the race to the bottom that 'call me Dave' seems so keen on, all workers in both the private and public sectors should receive a decent basic pension. A few points to consider:
I'll happily exchange my gilt edged pension for Jeremy wit Clarkson's any time he likes. Applications to join unions have jumped by over 100% in the last few weeks and even head teachers (those well known bastions of sedition) strike for the first time ever in their century plus history. And if you ever do take industrial action , let me know and I'll happily contribute a day's wages to you union's strike fund. |
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66568 |
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You could have posted JJ's signature.
The international sign for "You're number one"
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
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^ Damn.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
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A Porche would be nice toroddfuglesteg. I look forward to having a religious holiday named after me.
You may well be right especially if the pensions become so poor that people begin to opt out. Then the Tories really can say they are unaffordable.
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Help me I'm falling!
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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There's something I would usually say here about sample size and using personal experiences and memory to collect data, but instead I'm going to say that you most likely learned in spite of your education as most people do. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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