News of the day

Dean wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Dean wrote: But please, I mean real science, proper medical studies, actual facts and figures, not anti-vaccine propaganda, I can read that anywhere (in fact I can read this particular quote on every anti-vaccine site going). I'm not calling every vaccine junk, dangerous, and useless, but honestly the methodology you find in a lot of medical journals is just atrocious. It's one of the main reasons that you're seeing universities instituting biological mathematics majors. Professionals are starting to come around to this fact too. That's encouraging - perhaps more reliable data will result - too many (all?) of all these anti-vaccine scares are the result of bad analysis of poorly collated data. However, I fear that regardless of how well the data is processed, too many people will still misunderstand the results.

That's just the nature of science. You see health companies that claim things like, "Newton's first law states that a body in motion stays in motion. So the secret to a long life is large amounts of exercise to ensure that your body keeps moving"

Results are going to be misinterpreted. A lot of junk research really needs to be cleaned up, and the duplicitous nature of the FDA approval process really needs to be fixed as well.

timothy leary wrote: ^ It is pretty straightforward, mutated strains of Pertussis are being looked at for having origins in the pertussis vaccine http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=61852

That's poor interpretation of that that linked article says, because it doesn't say that at all. All viruses mutate resulting in many strains of the virus. Any one vaccine will be effective againsts some of those strains and less effective agaisnt others. Those that get passed the vaccine are not stronger or worse, they are just immune to that particular vaccine. The vaccine under examination contained fewer antigens than the previous vaccine that had been used and so filtered less strains (mutants) of the virus resulting in more getting passed. The vaccine did not contribute to the mutation, nor did the virus mutate in response to the vaccine - the virus would have mutated with or without the vaccine being present - all the vaccine did was it just fail to filter out that mutation.

Dean wrote: timothy leary wrote: ^ It is pretty straightforward, mutated strains of Pertussis are being looked at for having origins in the pertussis vaccine http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=61852 That's poor interpretation of that that linked article says, because it doesn't say that at all. All viruses mutate resulting in many strains of the virus. Any one vaccine will be effective againsts some of those strains and less effective agaisnt others. Those that get passed the vaccine are not stronger or worse, they are just immune to that particular vaccine. The vaccine under examination contained fewer antigens than the previous vaccine that had been used and so filtered less strains (mutants) of the virus resulting in more getting passed. The vaccine did not contribute to the mutation, nor did the virus mutate in response to the vaccine - the virus would have mutated with or without the vaccine being present - all the vaccine did was it just fail to filter out that mutation.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 26 2011 at 19:15

In November 2010, BMC Genomics published “Comparative genomics of prevaccination and modern Bordetella pertussis strains” by Marieke J Bart, et al. This paper focuses on “how B. pertussis has adapted to vaccination”(3). That leaves little room for question about the issue. The new strains of B. pertussis have developed in response to vaccinations for whooping cough

timothy leary wrote: An important issue is whether vaccination has selected for the ptxP3 strains. Several lines of evidence support this contention. First, ptxP3 strains were not found in the prevaccination era. Furthermore, although ptxP3 strains were found in high frequencies in vaccinated populations in the 1990s, they were not detected in Senegal, where vaccination was introduced in 1987 (32). Several studies have provided evidence that increased host immunity may select for higher virulence. Vaccination against 2 avian viruses, the Marek disease virus, and the infectious bursal disease virus, were associated with the emergence of more virulent strains (33). An important role of host immunity in selecting for virulence is also suggested by the co-evolution of the myxomatosis virus and rabbits (34). Furthermore, immune pressure was shown to select for more virulent Plasmodium chabaudi parasites in mice (35). Based on mathematical modeling, vaccines designed to reduce pathogen growth rate and/or toxicity may result in the evolution of pathogens with higher levels of virulence Explain these findings?

timothy leary wrote: First, ptxP3 strains were not found in the prevaccination era. Furthermore, although ptxP3 strains were found in high frequencies in vaccinated populations in the 1990s, they were not detected in Senegal, where vaccination was introduced in 1987 (32).

To explain this I need to explain how viruses propagate through a poplulation.

Edited by Dean - November 27 2011 at 07:20

The Wales manager Gary Speed has died. I am numbed and physically sick by the news and the way he died (if BBC is correct). The football/soccer world is stunned, shocked and bewildered by this tragedy. 

Sorry, but this sad news is far beyond belief. 

I was shocked when I found this out this morning. Still am. A genuinely poular nice guy with a new jiob and good looking prospects. WHY?

lazland wrote: Snow Dog wrote: I was shocked when I found this out this morning. Still am. A genuinely poular nice guy with a new jiob and good looking prospects. WHY? I don't understand. My son and I talked to him earlier this year at Celtic Manor. He was taking part in the pro-celebrity warm up match for the Welsh Open. He was genuinely nice, and my son was thrilled. I can only say that there must be something we are unaware of.