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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 10:46

Snow Dog wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.

Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states.

1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums

Iván

I can only tell you what they have stated. Anf why should they not help out on a friends album but still dissaprove?

For what i heard in "Genesis a History DVD" Tony states "I didn't believed it was healthy for the band to release solo albums".

I'm sure that if Phil and Mike would had believed it was not healthy for Genesis, if Steve released VOTA; they would not have taken part in the project..

Iván

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 10:49

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states.

Iván

I can only tell you what they have stated. Anf why should they not help out on a friends album but still dissaprove?

Iván

That is your opinion to which you are entitled. In my experience humans are more complicated than that and I have heard Collins also state that the future of Genesis should be secure before doing solos.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:33

Snow Dog wrote:

TB: Well, the first time I ever thought about doing a solo project was after Peter [Gabriel] left the band around Trick of The Tail. Then I thought, if Genesis is going to carry on, we really need to put all of the best ideas into that next album.

http://www.worldofgenesis.com/TonyBanks-Interview2009.htm

It's clear, Tony himself says this was his idea, later the band supported him, but originally, three members of Genesis were involved in Voyage.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 16 2011 at 11:33

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:39

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

http://www.worldofgenesis.com/TonyBanks-Interview2009.htm

It's clear, Tony himself says this was his idea, later the band supported him, but originally, three members of Genesis were involved in Voyage.

Iván

And I have heard Collins saying pretty much the same. Maybe he was just agreeing with Tony but what difference does that make? Collins saying it and banks saying = Genesis saying it.

Why are you telling me that three members of Genesis were involved with Voyage? Ermm

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:43

Snow Dog wrote:

Why are you telling me that three members of Genesis were involved with Voyage? Ermm

Steve Hackett, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford played in Voyage of the Acolyte.

So, three Genesis members were involved in Voyage. Wink

Snow Dog wrote:

And I have heard Collins saying pretty much the same. Maybe he was just agreeing with Tony but what difference does that make? Collins saying it and banks saying = Genesis saying it.

Banks said it and participated nowhere.

Phil Collins played in Brand X since 1976, so he was not completely devoted to Genesis, ergo, it was Tony's call.

Iván.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 16 2011 at 11:50

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:48

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Why are you telling me that three members of Genesis were involved with Voyage? Ermm

Steve Hackett, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford played in Voyage of the Acolyte.

So, three Genesis members were involved in Voyage. Wink

Iván.

Yeah...but why are you telling me? You think I forgot? Confused

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 22:43

Can some of you experts tell me your thoughts on what the songs are about?

I believe first and foremost it is about crossing over from adolescent years to mature adulthood years

The terms Wind and Wuthering would refer to the tree that bends in the wind when storms come and how they stand tall despite the turmoil. Thus referring to the rollercoaster of emotions one experiences when faced with difficult decisions.

Eg: One for the Vine

Fifty thousand men were sent to do the will of one.
His claim was phrased quite simply, though he never voiced it loud,
I am he, the chosen one.

The protagonist is called to serve as the chosen one, and immediately the majestic music echoes the sentiments of the one who will lead. It is regal and uplifting with some dark tones representing the conflict he feels within as he is forced to make the difficult choice.

In his name they could slaughter, for his name they could die.
Though many there were believed in him, still more were sure he lied,
But they'll fight the battle on.

The leader knows that many will die under his leadership but nevertheless must lead in order to instigate freedom. This may also represent the holy wars as told in The Bible, following the same themes as in other Genesis albums especially From Genesis to Revelation.

The main protagonist is experiencing the changes of adolescence to adulthood as a reluctant leader forced into going in directions without choice that lead him to an eventual demise. Religious overtones abound, and there are multiple interpretations. The protagonist is on the verge of crossing the line between divine inspiration and delusion. He has many people around him who believe in him to the point that leads him to an ultimate decision to take up leadership with both reigns firmly in hand. It takes quite a deal of soul searching before he finally decides to fulfil his purpose instead of doing things his own way. As he takes on the responsibility to leading he crosses into adulthood.

This is he, God's chosen one,
Who's come to save us from
All our oppressors.
We shall be kings on this world.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 23:02

I always believed W&W was a clear refeence to Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights

Ax a fact songs 6 and 7 are a literal quote from the book

"I lingered round them, under that benign sky; watched the moths fluttering among the heath, and hare-bells; listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass; and wondered how anyone could ever imagine unquiet slumbers, for the sleepers in that quiet earth".

About One for the Vine, I always thought it could be the conclusion of THE KNIFE. In the song from Trespass, the leader offers freedom in exchange for sacrifice, in "One for the Vine", some followers are disenchanted of promises and violence.

What I can't understand is why they made a song about John Erskine 22th or 11th Earl of Mar), the most incompetent characters of the 15 Jacobite Rising.

Iván

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Posted: November 16 2011 at 23:05

All of the songs are about pants

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Posted: November 17 2011 at 08:34

I don't think that there is any sort of overriding concept here, but the songs do hang together very well - for me, anyway.

According to Wikipedia, "Wot Gorilla?" is a reference to touring drummer Chester Thompson having been mentioned in "Florentine Pogen", a track on Frank Zappa's 1975 album One Size Fits All.

I looked up the lyrics to "Florentine Pogen", and sure enough, it contains this bit:

Chester's go-rilla
She go oink
Chester's go-rilla
She go quack
Chester's go-rilla
She go moo
Chester's go-rilla
She go

So there you go. Confused

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Posted: November 17 2011 at 08:42

Blood on the Rooftops.

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Posted: November 17 2011 at 09:06

mwood wrote:

I don't think that there is any sort of overriding concept here, but the songs do hang together very well - for me, anyway.

According to Wikipedia, "Wot Gorilla?" is a reference to touring drummer Chester Thompson having been mentioned in "Florentine Pogen", a track on Frank Zappa's 1975 album One Size Fits All.

I looked up the lyrics to "Florentine Pogen", and sure enough, it contains this bit:

Chester's go-rilla
She go oink
Chester's go-rilla
She go quack
Chester's go-rilla
She go moo
Chester's go-rilla
She go

So there you go. Confused

Have you listened to One Size Fits All? Great album, highly recommended.

New album!
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385

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Posted: November 17 2011 at 09:09

mwood wrote:

I don't think that there is any sort of overriding concept here, but the songs do hang together very well - for me, anyway.

According to Wikipedia, "Wot Gorilla?" is a reference to touring drummer Chester Thompson having been mentioned in "Florentine Pogen", a track on Frank Zappa's 1975 album One Size Fits All.

I looked up the lyrics to "Florentine Pogen", and sure enough, it contains this bit:

Chester's go-rilla
She go oink
Chester's go-rilla
She go quack
Chester's go-rilla
She go moo
Chester's go-rilla
She go

So there you go. Confused

Scott, I don’t know if you can use this in your blog, but I’ve detected a very intersting thing in One for the Vine. "The vine" sounds very much like "divine". Try it out in the lines:

He walked into a valley,
all alone.
There he talked with water,
and then with the vine/divine.

Isn’t it much like Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane? That again may mean that he’s about to be sacrificed – which he indeed is in a way. What do you think?

He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)

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Posted: November 17 2011 at 12:42

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Can some of you experts tell me your thoughts on what the songs are about?

I believe first and foremost it is about crossing over from adolescent years to mature adulthood years

Eg: One for the Vine

Fifty thousand men were sent to do the will of one.
His claim was phrased quite simply, though he never voiced it loud,
I am he, the chosen one.

This is he, God's chosen one,
Who's come to save us from
All our oppressors.
We shall be kings on this world.

That's what I was thinking about "One For the Vine", and I'm not sure about the meaning of all of the other songs, and I could be wrong about this one, but I always heard "Afterglow" as being about giving yourself up to God. Maybe with those two songs there is a connecting theme, but I'm having trouble applying "All In a Mouse's Night" and "Blood On the Rooftops" to that theme, except maybe the line "seems Helen of Troy has found a new face again" from "Blood On the Rooftops" could be parallel to the part in "One For the Vine" where the leader sees another figure in the crowd "vanish into air" to pursue his same path.

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Posted: November 18 2011 at 01:18

Thanks again everyone - I DEFINITELY WILL QUOTE some of these ideas in the blog - with permission i hope from one and all. I appreciate the input and feedback. Working on the blog entry now and its almost complete so please continue ideas.

One thing i am a bit perplexed with is the meaning of 'All in a Mouses Night'

I wrote in my review the following but do you agree or disagree - and can you add anything?

‘All In A Mouse’s Night’is an intriguing piece where a mouse speaks to a loving couple, Cinderella style. The lyrics are charming with a few dark nuances thrown in . Loving Couple:

The loving couple begins with talking to each other and the mouse chips in, which may or may not be imaginary; “I can't see you but I know you're there. Got to get beside you cos it's really cold out here. Come up close to me you'll soon be warm. Hold me tightly like we're sheltering from a storm.” The mouse then has some amusing dialogue to itself and we may surmise that it is on the head of the lovers who are experiencing detachment from reality; “Think I might go out for a stroll, Into the night, and out of this hole. Maybe find me a meal. Walking along this new shag pile, Presents a problem all the while. Nearly the door.”

The song continues with its quirky jaunty rhythms telling the tale of the mouse’s adventures; “Suddenly he bumps into wood, the door is closed. A voice from the bed, he'll be exposed. Which way to run, must make for the hole, The light's been turned on, he's blind as a mole in coal.”

Perhaps the mouse is a metaphorical representation of sexual suppression that the lovers are feeling. In fact a cat comes into the story and chases the mouse to its final fate; “But now the cat comes in for the kill, His paw is raised, soon blood will spill, yes it will.” The cat has a cynical line of dialogue that further cements the sexual tension in the lives of the lovers. They are experiencing conflict that is represented by the cat and the mouse scenario; “Hard luck mouse, this is the end of your road. The signpost says inside me, let me bear your heavy load. But it's not to be, that final pounce, Knocks a jar upon his head, and lays him out.” In any case it is a fun song harkening back to the classic Genesis material on “Foxtrot” or “Selling England By The Pound”.

Other interpretations are that the mouse represents mental health and the protagonist loses it completely when the cat is devoured by the ten foot mouse. Also this could be a dig at the Looney Tunes cartoon where Sylvester is taunted by a ‘ten foot mouthsh’ and it is actually a baby kangaroo but Junior thinks it’s a real mouse and forces his father to fight it to no avail. A darker interpretation is that the loving couple discovered a mouse costume stored in an old casket in the basement. The male donned the costume in order to scare his female lover but it backfires as she has become a cat in costume also and “it only took one blow”, she performs oral sex thus finishing in the superior position of the relationship. Or did she kill her lover accidentally thinking he was a lunatic trying to kill her. Or did the man in mouse costume see a cat on his way upstairs and whack the cat dead. The song is nevertheless about the chase, submission and sexual tension, disguised in a cute tale, and is one of the great tracks on the album.

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Posted: January 21 2012 at 10:40

I just found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ0JTA6sRJw&feature=related

He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)

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Posted: January 21 2012 at 12:25

I voted "One For The Vine", but this is one of my least favorite Genesis albums.

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Posted: January 21 2012 at 14:59

Toss up between "Blood on the Rooftops" and "One for the Vine". The last great Genesis album.

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

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Posted: January 21 2012 at 15:05

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Thanks again everyone - I DEFINITELY WILL QUOTE some of these ideas in the blog - with permission i hope from one and all. I appreciate the input and feedback. Working on the blog entry now and its almost complete so please continue ideas.

One thing i am a bit perplexed with is the meaning of 'All in a Mouses Night'

I wrote in my review the following but do you agree or disagree - and can you add anything?

I think you're reading way too much into a simple fairy tale of mouse revenge, wherein an "Everymouse" is saved from a feline feast by an avenging arch-mouse.

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

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Posted: January 21 2012 at 15:47

Afterglow is a love song ---afterglow is the warm and fuzzy feeling you have after you finish (Orgasm) with someone you love---the feeling that they are in total control of you----it has nothing to do with god IMO---Banks used to joke about how their repressed boys school made it hard for him to write a simple love song.

Poll Question: Choose your favourite song
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Eleventh Earl of Mar	13	[17.33%]
One for the Vine	24	[32.00%]
Your Own Special Way	2	[2.67%]
Wot Gorilla?	2	[2.67%]
All in a Mouse's Night	4	[5.33%]
Blood on the Rooftops	13	[17.33%]
Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers…	3	[4.00%]
…In That Quiet Earth	8	[10.67%]
Afterglow	6	[8.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted