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7headedchicken 
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 Posted: November 15 2011 at 12:43 |
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It's very tempting to go with "One For the Vine", it being the masterpiece of composition that it is, but I like "Eleventh Earl of Mar" a little bit more. It seems to encompass all aspects of the album, and contains some of it's best moments, although I've always thought of Wind and Wuthering as one of those albums that listens as one continuous track.
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refugee
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 12:51 |
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^Then I cast the vote for you since you don’t have enough posts to vote yet, and I can’t decide between Earl, Vine, Rooftops and Quiet Earth.
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He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)
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7headedchicken
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 13:23 |
 refugee wrote:
^Then I cast the vote for you since you don’t have enough posts to vote yet, and I can’t decide between Earl, Vine, Rooftops and Quiet Earth. |
Much apprieciated. In turn, when I'm able to vote, I will cast one for one of those other three for ya'.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 13:48 |
twosteves wrote:
I think one of the greatest prog tragedies is the hate Banks has for Hackett---to the degree they never worked together again---they were the perfect prog keys and guitar combo in Genesis and made amazing music. I mean after Phil left the pop group---the ego involved to think they could carry on with CAS---they could have gotten Hackett back and made some real prog knowing they had nothing to prove anymore---but Banks just loves to exclude Hackett. |
Hate is a strong word, and I don't believe Tony hates Steve, but surely they are no best friends.
When Gabriel was in the band, things were easier, Tony made most of the music and Peter made the lyrics of most tracks, while Steve and Tony worked the arrangements together.
But when Peter leaves, all the members wanted to be composers, something I believed didn't troubled Tony, because he knew he was a step ahead of all the others, but Voyage of the Acolyte caused an earthquake, Phil and Mike played for an album completely written by Steve and it was a success (Mote than any Genesis album up to that moment), in that instant Steve ceased to be the silent member who played guitar siting in a chair, to become a strong competition for Tony.
I don't know if Steve didn't invited Tony or Tony didn't want to play in VOTA, but Tony said on an interview, that making solo albums was not healthy for Genesis (He said nothing when Phil and Mike did the same), but the tension got worst, if you watch videos from the era, it looks as three close friends (Tony, Steve & Phil), plus two guests (Steve and Bill Bruford) until a tired Steve left the band.
And glad he did, because along with Peter Gabriel, they kept the level high.
Iván
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refugee
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 15:02 |
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^Hmm … they all contributed to the music, didn’t they? And a lot of lyrics were not written by Gabriel. As far as I know, The Musical Box was a typical band composition (also lyricwise, with contributions by Ant as well), For Absent Friends was made by Hackett and Collins, Seven Stones was written by Banks alone, the lyrics of Fountain was, I think, co-written by Banks and Rutherford (though others may have been involved). Watcher was Banks/Rutherford, Time Table was Banks alone, Gabriel made the music to Willow Farm. Firth of Fifth was again Banks and Rutherford, with Hackett adding the fantastic solo, of course, we all know that Hackett made After the Ordeal, and the lyrics for Cinema Show were written by Banks and Hackett. The Lamb …is another story, of course, but still (again as far as I know) Gabriel made the music to Counting out Time and The Chamber … and the main melody of Carpet Crawlers.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure you know a lot more about Genesis than I
do. Still I feel it’s a bit wrong to generalise, saying that "Tony made
most of the music and Peter made the lyrics of most tracks". But you’re
probably right about Hackett’s role and that Banks got a bit of a shock
when when VotA was released.
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He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 15:09 |
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One From The Vine
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 15:10 |
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states.
Edited by Snow Dog - November 15 2011 at 15:18
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Heathcliffe
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 15:18 |
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One for the Vine - Masterpiece.
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Hercules
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Joined: June 14 2007
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 16:21 |
Not a great album IMO. Just solid 3*.
Not offensive in any way, but lacks the spark of genius of earlier albums. Trick of the Tail was much better but still nowhere near the genius of Trespass through to SEBTP.
Best track - probably Eleventh Earl of Mar.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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wilmon91
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 16:52 |
Surprised of the popularity of Eleventh Earl. For me it's too messy. Collins is trashing the hi-hat. More of that sound can be found on "And then there were three". The highlight though is the "time to go to bed now" part.
For me the best songs are arguably One for the Vine and Blood on The Rooftops. I can't choose one of them.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 18:05 |
refugee wrote:
^Hmm … they all contributed to the music, didn’t they? And a lot of lyrics were not written by Gabriel. As far as I know, The Musical Box was a typical band composition (also lyricwise, with contributions by Ant as well), For Absent Friends was made by Hackett and Collins, Seven Stones was written by Banks alone, the lyrics of Fountain was, I think, co-written by Banks and Rutherford (though others may have been involved). Watcher was Banks/Rutherford, Time Table was Banks alone, Gabriel made the music to Willow Farm. Firth of Fifth was again Banks and Rutherford, with Hackett adding the fantastic solo, of course, we all know that Hackett made After the Ordeal, and the lyrics for Cinema Show were written by Banks and Hackett. The Lamb …is another story, of course, but still (again as far as I know) Gabriel made the music to Counting out Time and The Chamber … and the main melody of Carpet Crawlers.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure you know a lot more about Genesis than I
do. Still I feel it’s a bit wrong to generalise, saying that "Tony made
most of the music and Peter made the lyrics of most tracks". But you’re
probably right about Hackett’s role and that Banks got a bit of a shock
when when VotA was released.
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The collaboration is relative, the main songwritter in Genesis was always Tony, and the main lyricist was peter.
Of course there are exceptions, but hardly anybody was competition for Tony before Peter left.
Iván
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criticdrummer94
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Joined: June 16 2011
Location: Ohio
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 18:58 |
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say All in a Mouse's Night
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MY IDOLS
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Lark the Starless
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Joined: October 15 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 19:04 |
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Just one of those great "winter albums."
I vote for "Blood on the Rooftops." Spectacular intro.
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Fox On The Rocks
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 22:08 |
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One For The Vine tied with Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth.
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 01:47 |
wilmon91 wrote:
Surprised of the popularity of Eleventh Earl. For me it's too messy. Collins is trashing the hi-hat. More of that sound can be found on "And then there were three". The highlight though is the "time to go to bed now" part.
For me the best songs are arguably One for the Vine and Blood on The Rooftops. I can't choose one of them. |
For me Collins playing feels a bit 'stiff' on this album.
I find And Then There Were Three more satisfying with Collins particularly shining on tracks like Down and Out ,Deep In The Motherlode and Burning Rope. Duke was even better though!
Edited by richardh - November 16 2011 at 01:49
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ten years after
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 05:28 |
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When Gabriel left, the adventure and excitement left with him. TOTT and WAW have lots of pleasant melodies and excellent musicianship but there's rather too much sugar and not enough chilli for my taste.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 05:36 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
refugee wrote:
^Hmm … they all contributed to the music, didn’t they? And a lot of lyrics were not written by Gabriel. As far as I know, The Musical Box was a typical band composition (also lyricwise, with contributions by Ant as well), For Absent Friends was made by Hackett and Collins, Seven Stones was written by Banks alone, the lyrics of Fountain was, I think, co-written by Banks and Rutherford (though others may have been involved). Watcher was Banks/Rutherford, Time Table was Banks alone, Gabriel made the music to Willow Farm. Firth of Fifth was again Banks and Rutherford, with Hackett adding the fantastic solo, of course, we all know that Hackett made After the Ordeal, and the lyrics for Cinema Show were written by Banks and Hackett. The Lamb …is another story, of course, but still (again as far as I know) Gabriel made the music to Counting out Time and The Chamber … and the main melody of Carpet Crawlers.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure you know a lot more about Genesis than I
do. Still I feel it’s a bit wrong to generalise, saying that "Tony made
most of the music and Peter made the lyrics of most tracks". But you’re
probably right about Hackett’s role and that Banks got a bit of a shock
when when VotA was released.
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The collaboration is relative, the main songwritter in Genesis was always Tony, and the main lyricist was peter.
Of course there are exceptions, but hardly anybody was competition for Tony before Peter left.
Iván |
Without proof I cannot accept your assertion. It's news to me but maybe it's relative. Depends what "main songwriter" actually means. 51% of the tunes? Many or even most of the basic ideas for the music may have been his, but the majority of the finished product was a group effort.
Edited by Snow Dog - November 16 2011 at 05:40
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 07:59 |
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Thanks for all the info here everyone. It helps my next blog entry in the Genesis thread.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 08:47 |
Snow Dog wrote:
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states. |
1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums
2.- Yes Snow Dog, I should had used the term "As critically acclaimed a previous albums"
Iván
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 10:41 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states. |
1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums
Iván |
I can only tell you what they have stated. Anf why should they not help out on a friends album but still dissaprove?
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