Ian Anderson disses prog

Snow Dog wrote: ^ what a load of guff.

Ian must be having fun seeing that his (not new) statement caused already 7 pages here...

moshkito wrote: Originally posted by JJLehto More prog musicians should diss prog   I agree. But it would ruffle too many feathers at PA!

rogerthat wrote: Except that I don't believe it is completely offbase. A lot of prog bands do wrap up wafer thin ideas in piles of noodle and a lot of them do fail to resonate emotionally with listeners, so it is no wonder the original movement ran out of steam in the late 70s.  It really depends on which side of the fence you are. If you are a dyed in wool prog fanatic, you will find Anderson's quips offensive. But I like great prog rock bands as opposed to prog as a format - which again is a very nebulous and fuzzily defined concept seeing as no two progheads can agree on what is prog - so I don't find the stereotype completely offensive. So, there's nothing here about intentionally spreading something WRONG....exaggerated is probably a better word for it.

wilmon91 wrote: JJLehto wrote: More prog musicians should diss prog   How strange is that. So what is your opinion on prog? If prog is just silly or lame , why do you listen to it? Maybe music is just a big joke.   How can a prog musician have a passion for music while at the same time have no respect for it? Is it some sort of sickness? "I'm doing silly prog music, I can't help it".   It reminds me of the sort of commercial entertainment artists who are like clowns and see their own music as a sort of joke that has no meaning whatsoever. A swedish artist comes to mind, Markoolio.   So everyone should diss prog. Oh how cool.

....a bit serious eh?
I would say it was just a joke but we all got up in arms over a joke and made this thread so guess it's nothing new
Prog Fans really are terrible overall.
I honestly stand by that one.





Edited by JJLehto - November 15 2011 at 00:05

bucka001 wrote: JJLehto wrote: More prog musicians should diss prog   Most do, and trip over each other as they try and run away from the genre label.

Yes they do!
Funny you mention that, I noticed the same thing. Almost every band does it though, running from their genre label. With the inevitable response of "we are not prog! (or death metal or jazzcore or w/e) we are just (band name) ok?"


Ugh, I just remembered why I never leave the whacky lil confine of the General Discussions and JFF.
I dont know about all the musicians, but many prog fans I've dealt with are truly overly serious and pretentious.
I will include myself in there.


Edited by JJLehto - November 15 2011 at 00:10

moshkito wrote: Snow Dog wrote: lazland wrote: Snow Dog wrote: ^ what a load of guff. Guff exists. Therefore, it is guff I was having second thoughts about this comment so I came to delete it. Now it is quoted...oh well.   The only sad part of it all Snow Dog is that you don't seem to have respect for people that see different things than you. I have no quarry with your views or ideas, other than you being willing to discuss them ... but you, instead, say something is wrong and do not explain your view ... well, you know, everyone has a right to say what they believe ... but only the good ones have the guts to try and explain it, and put their words to their feelings and writings. All the others? ... they usually won't be remembered.   You do a good, and valuable job here, and it is sad that you, instead, spend your time on interpersonal stuff ... how "progressive" of you!

Snow Dog is a bit grumpy at times thats all. You on the other hand think its fine to talk down your nose to people which I personally find very irritating.

richardh wrote: moshkito wrote: Snow Dog wrote: lazland wrote: Snow Dog wrote: ^ what a load of guff. Guff exists. Therefore, it is guff I was having second thoughts about this comment so I came to delete it. Now it is quoted...oh well.   The only sad part of it all Snow Dog is that you don't seem to have respect for people that see different things than you. I have no quarry with your views or ideas, other than you being willing to discuss them ... but you, instead, say something is wrong and do not explain your view ... well, you know, everyone has a right to say what they believe ... but only the good ones have the guts to try and explain it, and put their words to their feelings and writings. All the others? ... they usually won't be remembered.   You do a good, and valuable job here, and it is sad that you, instead, spend your time on interpersonal stuff ... how "progressive" of you! Snow Dog is a bit grumpy at times thats all. You on the other hand think its fine to talk down your nose to people which I personally find very irritating.

Edited by Snow Dog - November 15 2011 at 01:57

JJLehto wrote: bucka001 wrote: JJLehto wrote: More prog musicians should diss prog   Most do, and trip over each other as they try and run away from the genre label. Yes they do! Funny you mention that, I noticed the same thing. Almost every band does it though, running from their genre label. With the inevitable response of "we are not prog! (or death metal or jazzcore or w/e) we are just (band name) ok?" Ugh, I just remembered why I never leave the whacky lil confine of the General Discussions and JFF. I dont know about all the musicians, but many prog fans I've dealt with are truly overly serious and pretentious. I will include myself in there.

So true

wilmon91 wrote:   The points you make may be vaild, but it is the quality in the music which needs to be recognized. A lot of classical music can be accused of being emotionless. Steve Reich (modern classical) hates emotions, romanticness and nice harmonies. He sees other purposes in music. But concerning Gentle Giant, I still think the harmonies, instrumentation and dynamics creates lots of atmosphere and emotion. Listen to Schooldays for example. I can't agree with this lack of emotion argument, even if there are moments were there is an over focus on rythmic intricacies. The music itself holds the emotions, it's different to pop music that has more exaggerated simplistic expressions.   Prog is being valued only by its negative aspects, being swept under the rug as some sort of big mistake. No one can justify it's existence. You can always make arguments that simplicity is better than complexity and so on, but that is really an oversimplification. Commercial pop and rock should be equally critized as something adapted to the general audience with its insane repetitions of simplistic melodies.   The relationship between the commercial artist and the audience can often be dishonest. The artist focuses on delivering something that the audience will accept and understand after just a few seconds. So the music will be marked by an impatience, overly straightforwardness, repetitiveness and staticness, a lack of change in dynamics, harmonies, everything. The creative freedom today within pop/rock artistry is being limited by a general agreement on what it should and should not be.   An artist playing a song which brings nothing new, sounding the same as many earlier artists - he is not being criticized. Plagiarism and lack of creativity is not a bad thing. If you try hard to make the most insanely silly , stupid pop song, no matter how hard you try you won't be ridiculed. That is the state of things. If you make something with real ambition for the music itself, you are suddenly serious, probably caught up in some pretentious illusion, not understanding what pop/rock is supposed to be. You are more likely to be regarded as a joke.   So most music today have a lot of superficial traits because people are very afraid of being too serious.

You have missed my point which is that positive qualities of prog were not something that found much use in rock beyond a point while the negative aspects became turn offs. That explains why the stereotype exists.  These bands may have quality, but like any other music, it is not beyond criticism and it so happens that some of prog's common flaws turn off rock listeners.  The death of prog and the state of modern pop/rock are also not mutually exclusive events or phenomena. I don't think people necessarily see contemporary commercial rock/pop as above criticism and, if anything, lament its state but that doesn't really have such a strong logical connection with the dying out of the original prog movement. So you can't really insist on a right or wrong here because there is really no such thing in black and white; it's more about what one set of listeners want and what one minority prefers.  Lastly, the flipside of lack of emotion is not oversimplification. It is more that some prog rock bands chased complexity as an end. A piece of music can very well be complex, highly original and emotional. Progheads also have the bad habit of measuring complexity vide length and structure. There is also chord progressions, sense of time (not just odd time sigs but how free or rigid is it) and smoothness of difficult transitions - it can all still be done in 4-5 minutes but other than Gentle Giant, none of the big prog rock bands were up for it and, wait, GG aren't all that big anyway.