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Topic ClosedVangelis - Prog?

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Poll Question: Where does this artist fit in the Prog spectrum?
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digdug View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 08:39
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

 

Digdug, of the albums you have, do you have Hypothesis and Dragon?  What albums do you think most suitable to a Prog category that you have?



 
Here are my Vangelis albums
 
 
The Dragon                      - 1971   -  Sounds like Krautrock to me
L'Apocalypse des Animaux -  1973 -  more ambient - Prog Electronic fits
Earth                               - 1973  -  all over the map - but definitely prog
Heaven and Hell                - 1975  -  this could easily fit under Avant
Chariots of Fire                 - 1981 -  softer - almost classical - but prog
1492 Conquest of Paradise - 1992 - softer - almost classical - but prog
El Greco                            - 1998 - softer - almost classical - but prog
  
I also used to have Blade Runner.... but this seems to have disappeared  :(
 
 
Overall , I guess I would throw him  in eclectic   :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 08:49
The only Vangelis album I love? Blade Runner.

The Vangelis albums I've heard? I think the first ten or so.

How do I feel about them? Oh I hate the hell out of them. God, I can't stand them.

Are they prog? Listen, bubs, if Heaven and Hell ain't prog, then Tangerine Dream needs a swift boot out the door. That empty Zeit crap is prog-electronic but Heaven and Hell is only 'related to' prog? Can't this site strike up a feasible internal logic for a change? :P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 09:26
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...

- Vangelis is prog no doubt. He should be in Eclectic... or I don't know. The ones I've kept in my collection by him are: Hypothesis, The Dragon, Sex Power, Earth, Heaven and Hell, L'apocalypse des Animaux, Albedo 039, Beaubourg. Eight albums in almost as many different genres.



Originally posted by digdug digdug wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:



...Vangelis was declined for Progressive Electronic, and I think an Art Rock sub such as Crossover could fit work of his well (or Eclectic ).  He has electronic, jazzy, avant Prog, psych Krautrocky, and more classical symphish pieces....

Digdug, of the albums you have, do you have Hypothesis and Dragon?  What albums do you think most suitable to a Prog category that you have?



 
Here are my Vangelis albums
 
 
The Dragon                      - 1971   -  Sounds like Krautrock to me
L'Apocalypse des Animaux -  1973 -  more ambient - Prog Electronic fits
Earth                               - 1973  -  all over the map - but definitely prog
Heaven and Hell                - 1975  -  this could easily fit under Avant
Chariots of Fire                 - 1981 -  softer - almost classical - but prog
1492 Conquest of Paradise - 1992 - softer - almost classical - but prog
El Greco                            - 1998 - softer - almost classical - but prog
  
I also used to have Blade Runner.... but this seems to have disappeared  :(
 
 
Overall , I guess I would throw him  in eclectic   :)




Quoting both, and adding in more of my posts, since they relate and help make the case for eclectic.

Cool! Thanks.  I could definitely see him in Eclectic , and methinks it may be about time that that team check it (I used to be on it and may still have a vote, but would be rude of me to intrude after all this time). Maybe let this thread develop a  bit more first since it'll help as people post more youtube vids (plus the other such discussions that have happened). It would take Admin plus Eclectic team approval to move it, I believe.  I think one reason why it is still in Related is because it was rejected for Prog Electronic, but no other Prog category team has evaluated it to my knowledge.

I have Hypothesis, Dragon, L'apocalypse..., Sex Power, Beauborg, Heaven and Hell, and have had music from a lot of his later soundtrack works as well (Blade Runner,  Antarctica, The Bounty).

Just re-posting some music and adding to it (in order of his albums):

Sex Power 1969

(such an underrated album at PA)

Fais Que Ton Reve Soit Plus Long Que La Nuit 1971



Hypothesis 1971



The Dragon 1971



L' Apocalypse des Animaux 1973



Earth 1973



Heaven And Hell 1975



Albedo 0.39 1976



La Fęte Sauvage 1976



That's enough from me for now.


Edited by Logan - November 08 2011 at 09:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 09:35
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

The only Vangelis album I love? Blade Runner.

The Vangelis albums I've heard? I think the first ten or so.

How do I feel about them? Oh I hate the hell out of them. God, I can't stand them.

Are they prog? Listen, bubs, if Heaven and Hell ain't prog, then Tangerine Dream needs a swift boot out the door. That empty Zeit crap is prog-electronic but Heaven and Hell is only 'related to' prog? Can't this site strike up a feasible internal logic for a change? :P

It's situations like this that had me petitioning for a more formal and transparent inclusion process in that other thread a month back or so, but no, everyone said I was a moron. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:08
If it was only for "Heaven & Hell", I would claim Vangelis for Symphonic (Extremely close to 666), but his career is too diverse.

He has more than one full Prog album, so he should be considered Prog IMO.

Now, I'm more oriented for Eclectic or Crossover.

I never use the if X why not Y argument, but I will make an exception, because I believe it's hallucinating to have Tori Amos and Robert Plant as full Prog, while Vangelis is lumped in Prog Related

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 08 2011 at 10:27
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:20
Should only be allowed to be PRog if he accepts certain austerity measures
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:12
The only connection I see as value between Vangelis and prog is in fact part of his history where Jon Anderson desperately attempted to make him a member of YES. Only then ...during that time it seemed as if he would become the next Wakeman or Emerson.....recording and touring with a progressive rock band, but in the end I suppose it was up to the musician's union ...or whatever reason?...Jon Anderson didn't have the time to waste and hired someone else. Vangelis was considered a progressive rock keyboardist by your prog icons, but he was diverse and dismissed the proposition continuing to make a living composing soundtracks. What made his RCA releases to sound more prog crossover than other Electronic artists was the fact that he played drums and steered clear of the drum machine death trap for a while. Take for example when Tangerine Dream released Force Majeure....it sounded more prog in sections due to the employed drummer.
 
To a slight degree it's like taking the electronic out of electronic and replacing it with real instruments which is more prominet in prog. His catalog is very diverse. One title may be electronic while the next one is opera. The early period of his career is focused more on "Progressive Rock" like the Dragon and the RCA releases. For a while he was labeled a "New Age' artist. Clearly this doesn't have too much to do with Prog other than minor excerpts clocking in at 4 to 5 minutes. Like Mike Oldfield ....he is a composer that  perhaps cannot be pigeon-holed to any particular style of music and with consistency. David Bedford recorded 1 rock album and the rest of his catalog is simply him being a composer of diverse magnitude or measures. Vangelis is in the same classification..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:17
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

The only connection I see as value between Vangelis and prog is in fact part of his history where Jon Anderson desperately attempted to make him a member of YES. Only then ...during that time it seemed as if he would become the next Wakeman or Emerson.....recording and touring with a progressive rock band, but in the end I suppose it was up to the musician's union ...or whatever reason?...Jon Anderson didn't have the time to waste and hired someone else. Vangelis was considered a progressive rock keyboardist by your prog icons, but he was diverse and dismissed the proposition continuing to make a living composing soundtracks. What made his RCA releases to sound more prog crossover than other Electronic artists was the fact that he played drums and steered clear of the drum machine death trap for a while. Take for example when Tangerine Dream released Force Majeure....it sounded more prog in sections due to the employed drummer.
 
To a slight degree it's like taking the electronic out of electronic and replacing it with real instruments which is more prominet in prog. His catalog is very diverse. One title may be electronic while the next one is opera. The early period of his career is focused more on "Progressive Rock" like the Dragon and the RCA releases. For a while he was labeled a "New Age' artist. Clearly this doesn't have too much to do with Prog other than minor excerpts clocking in at 4 to 5 minutes. Like Mike Oldfield ....he is a composer that  perhaps cannot be pigeon-holed to any particular style of music and with consistency. David Bedford recorded 1 rock album and the rest of his catalog is simply him being a composer of diverse magnitude or measures. Vangelis is in the same classification..

The rule says ONE Prog album

  1. Heaven & Hell is a masterpiece of Symphonic Prog in the vein of Aphrodite's Child
  2. Albedo 0.39 Is also a PURE ELECTRONIC album
  3. Blade Runner is at least a Crossover Soundtrack
  4. Spiral is a pure Prog blend of various genres
If it was only for those FOUR albums on three different genres, he would deserve to be in Eclectic or Crossover.

I haven't heard L'Apocalypse Des Animaux, but I found buried in one old box and will listen it right now, because I understand it's also pure Prog.

For God's sake, aren't FOUR FULL Prog albums enough for Vangelis and a partially Proggish album enough for others?

Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:18
The connection I see of real value to this site is that he has more than sufficient materal/ albums to be included in a PA  prog category.  Lots of artists can't easily be pigeonholed/ work in diverse styles, but for evaluation we should focus on the most deemed Prog Archives-relevant albums, and not let the other material keep an artist out of a prog category, in my opinion.

Vangelis himself is not Prog, and I don't call artists Prog, only artist's music, but he sure has music that fits PA's Prog umbrella.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:29
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

The only connection I see as value between Vangelis and prog is in fact part of his history where Jon Anderson desperately attempted to make him a member of YES. Only then ...during that time it seemed as if he would become the next Wakeman or Emerson.....recording and touring with a progressive rock band, but in the end I suppose it was up to the musician's union ...or whatever reason?...Jon Anderson didn't have the time to waste and hired someone else. Vangelis was considered a progressive rock keyboardist by your prog icons, but he was diverse and dismissed the proposition continuing to make a living composing soundtracks. What made his RCA releases to sound more prog crossover than other Electronic artists was the fact that he played drums and steered clear of the drum machine death trap for a while. Take for example when Tangerine Dream released Force Majeure....it sounded more prog in sections due to the employed drummer.
 
To a slight degree it's like taking the electronic out of electronic and replacing it with real instruments which is more prominet in prog. His catalog is very diverse. One title may be electronic while the next one is opera. The early period of his career is focused more on "Progressive Rock" like the Dragon and the RCA releases. For a while he was labeled a "New Age' artist. Clearly this doesn't have too much to do with Prog other than minor excerpts clocking in at 4 to 5 minutes. Like Mike Oldfield ....he is a composer that  perhaps cannot be pigeon-holed to any particular style of music and with consistency. David Bedford recorded 1 rock album and the rest of his catalog is simply him being a composer of diverse magnitude or measures. Vangelis is in the same classification..

The rule says ONE Prog album

  1. Heaven & Hell is a masterpiece of Symphonic Prog in the vein of Aphrodite's Child
  2. Albedo 0.39 Is also a PURE ELECTRONIC album
  3. Blade Runner is at least a Crossover Soundtrack
  4. Spiral is a pure Prog blend of various genres
If it was only for those FOUR albums on three different genres, he would deserve to be in Eclectic or Crossover.

I haven't heard L'Apocalypse Des Animaux, but I found buried in one old box and will listen it right now, because I understand it's also pure Prog.

For God's sake, aren't FOUR FULL Prog albums enough for Vangelis and a partially Proggish album enough for others?

Iván


You should try some of his earlier albums, if you haven't already (see the clips I posted).

I have suggested to the Eclectic team to look into a move there (failing that Xover).  They would need admin permission, and we'll see what they think when they have the time to look into it.  This has been so mnay discussions over the years on this, and I hope this one might finally make the difference.


Edited by Logan - November 08 2011 at 14:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:12
Prog for sure, he already was prog with Aphrodite'schild first album ( End of the world ) Just listen carefully to tracks like : the grass is no green, day of the fool or the sheperd and the moon...It was kind of prog genesis.......
FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:26
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:



I have great respect for Philippe, and for Rico while he was on the team.  It's actually been one of the team threads that I've most enjoyed visiting/ making sugesstions to.  Both very personable, insightful, quick to respond,  thorough in response, easy to talk to, and enthusiastic when they enjoy the music..
That just deepens the mystery.  I think I figured it out though: Beauborg. LOL    Beaubourg not beauborg...Smile it's a museum in Paris...but yes...and what about invisible connections? is it prog enough? Big smile


Edited by jean-marie - November 08 2011 at 15:28
FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:31
Originally posted by jean-marie jean-marie wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:



I have great respect for Philippe, and for Rico while he was on the team.  It's actually been one of the team threads that I've most enjoyed visiting/ making sugesstions to.  Both very personable, insightful, quick to respond,  thorough in response, easy to talk to, and enthusiastic when they enjoy the music..
That just deepens the mystery.  I think I figured it out though: Beauborg. LOL    Beaubourg not beauborg...Smile it's a museum in Paris...but yes...and what about invisible connections? is it prog enough? Big smile

Whaaa????LOL
It all sounds like sqeeee eee eeeekkk to me dammit!  You know, I think I remember some verbiage on the cover but dammed if that thing totally didn't work for me when I first heard it.  The same thing with those two albums with the sci-fi covers.  I was backwards exploring and terribly disappointed by all of that.  Heaven And Hell and Albedo 90210 remain tops for me.  Spiral too.  I don't hear the particular distinctions in sub genres that Ivan does though.  It all sounds progressive electronic to me.  Maybe my problem is that I find all good synthesizer dominated music to be the epitome of progressive electronic.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 08 2011 at 15:37
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:38
I certianly wouldn't call Invisible Connections Prog per se, it's more minimalist, experimental, musique concrete.



Very good album, but more in the Stockhausen tradition, than, say, ELP. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:52
Originally posted by jean-marie jean-marie wrote:

Prog for sure, he already was prog with Aphrodite'schild first album ( End of the world ) Just listen carefully to tracks like : the grass is no green, day of the fool or the sheperd and the moon...It was kind of prog genesis.......

Probably as Prog as From Genesis to  the Revelation (hich is not Prog), but that's not the point here, Aphrodite's Child is already in Prog Archive, mostly due to 666.

Now let's hope Vangelis is moved to Eclectic or Xover.

Iván

BTW: In the case of Phillipe, I would ad rejected Vangelis from Electronic, because he doesn't fit there due to the eclectic nature of his music.

So as Logan I believe he would fit in Eclectic and/or Xover.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:53

he should be in electronic prog.

He belongs to the monsters of electronic music, together with TD, Klaus Schulze and Jean-Michel Jarre.
What the hell is he doing in prog-related ????
And why is Jean-Michel Jarre in Prog-related as well ????
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 16:05
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

 

You should try some of his earlier albums, if you haven't already (see the clips I posted).


 

I have them all, and it's quite funny how.

My parents always traveled to USA to Antique events, and normally i gave them a huge list of Prog albums (betwen 15 or 20 each time) that they brought me (There was no Prog in Perú), no matter how hard was for them to find this list.

But this time in 1982 they left Perú one night without previous notice because there was an amazing piece that was going to be sold to another person if they didn't pay for it, being that it was a lot of money, they had to see it.

As usual my sister had her list of things ready (mostly Levis Jeans and some fancy clothes), but I didn't had it. So before they left, my mother asked me what band i was listening, I told her i had just discovered Vangelis (Heaven & Hell) and was very impressed.

So after a week, she came with more or less 20 Vangelis albums, most of which I didn't liked because I expected more Symphonic styled like Heaven & Hell and Found Jon & Vangelis extremely cheesy.

So still I have a couple in a box hat I never heard.

Iván 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 08 2011 at 16:54
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 17:01
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

he should be in electronic prog.

He belongs to the monsters of electronic music, together with TD, Klaus Schulze and Jean-Michel Jarre.
What the hell is he doing in prog-related ????
And why is Jean-Michel Jarre in Prog-related as well ????


I also do not see why Vangelis and JMJ are not in Prog Electronic.  That's where they make the most sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 17:10
Fellow members, we thank you for bringing up this matter once more (count must be of double digits now) and showing such great interest in it. We would also like to remind you, however, that this will still be of no avail.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 17:24
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I certianly wouldn't call Invisible Connections Prog per se, it's more minimalist, experimental, musique concrete.



Very good album, but more in the Stockhausen tradition, than, say, ELP. LOL
LOL Yes! This one I have and I must totally agree with you.
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