Abortion: Legal or Illegal

No point in making the discussion overly compartmentalized. Abortion is pretty logically connected to philosophy. 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Russell is weak man. His theory of types makes me scream for its unnecessary complexity.

Deathrabbit wrote: Okay, I think we should prolly /threadjack at this point. Maybe a mod should split the last few pages or so off into a philosophy thread?

I could have sworn we came up the definitive consensus on this issue a few pages back.

Really, the discussion is nice and all and philosophy might help but in the end people all talk and issue judgement or a position which might not be consistent with reality. Seriously, when we are faced with a real life situation, how would we react?

I say it from a personal perspective. Maybe utilitarian, maybe opportunistic, whatever. My girlfriend and me protect ourselves, are very careful, and shouldn't worry about it but things happen and failure in protection methods occur and what would we do if we faced the situation that she be pregnant right now?

Yes, I could say "poor child I don't want him to come to this world" or "I won't be able to give him what he deserves" or something else putting the blame of the action on him. But no. I wouldn't be ready. We wouldn't be ready. It would ruin our lives in every way right now. Later on, when it's planned, I would welcome it. For now, it would be, in every way, a disaster.

If it's early, very early, I (we) would not hesitate. So I won't preach or philosophise about it.

baby's are totally cool and truckloads of fun


even if not entirely planned





(which is not an opinion on abortion mind you)

The T wrote: Really, the discussion is nice and all and philosophy might help but in the end people all talk and issue judgement or a position which might not be consistent with reality. Seriously, when we are faced with a real life situation, how would we react? I say it from a personal perspective. Maybe utilitarian, maybe opportunistic, whatever. My girlfriend and me protect ourselves, are very careful, and shouldn't worry about it but things happen and failure in protection methods occur and what would we do if we faced the situation that she be pregnant right now? Yes, I could say "poor child I don't want him to come to this world" or "I won't be able to give him what he deserves" or something else putting the blame of the action on him. But no. I wouldn't be ready. We wouldn't be ready. It would ruin our lives in every way right now. Later on, when it's planned, I would welcome it. For now, it would be, in every way, a disaster. If it's early, very early, I (we) would not hesitate. So I won't preach or philosophise about it.

If you had a planned birth and your child had a severe form of autism you might feel the same way. Think you have to be careful about that line of thinking.

Though financially I could definite support a child at this point in my life, I really REALLY don't want kids for at least 5 and maybe 10 years. I don't want to have to be responsible for anybody but myself. If I want to drive to Florida for vacation, I go. If I want to go to a really awesome concert until 3AM, I go. If I want to go to a football game, I go.
I also wouldn't want to spend the money I'm saving to buy a house on a baby. Babies cost a ton of money and that'd ruin a lot of my personal plans.

With that being said, I still would never consider asking whatever lucky girl to get an abortion. Killing for the sake of convenience seems pretty petty to me.

^thanks for the come-back to topic. (even if the philiosophy discussion was interesting hehe)

^

Deathrabbit wrote: Epignosis wrote: These children I have- and the one I will have, not even having met him or her- are not regrets. Challenges?  Often.  Tiresome?  Definitely.  About to go to the corner right this very minute?    You bet.  But I cannot image my life any more enriched without them.  They are my morning and evening stars- here when I rise and here when I lie down.  I wasn't "ready" either when we found out we would have our firstborn, who is mildly autistic.  We would get 2-3 hours of sleep with him and have to go to work the next day (as teachers no less). Children piss on the couch and refuse to eat what is good for them and distract you from recording your next album and shriek when you are recording your next album and keep you and your spouse from marital fun and embarrass you in front of other people and are rude to strangers and spit up and cost you a fortune, and require you to get up every other minute and get sick and babble constantly and cry for no apparent reason and repeat you when you utter a profanity and expect you to think that everything in their world is more important than the rent and draw on the walls with crayons and break things and interrupt the preacher and cause you and your spouse to grow irritated with each other and not let you watch movies together and rebel when it's bath time or rebel when it's time to get out and may still not appreciate anything you ever do for them. And life is so wonderful. Rob, this an argument on why you should not get an abortion, not on why it should be illegal.

It was not an argument at all.  It was a response.