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Atavachron 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65513
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 Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:10 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
I wonder if the subject was whether the mother should be killed in order to save, or improve, the baby's life.
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Why wonder? You can just check the OP to see if that's the case.
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No I meant what people's views would be were that the case
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TheMasterMofo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2009
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 220
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:10 |
Alitare wrote:
You don't see too many of these fetuses picketing abortion clinics, do you? If they're so worked up about the matter then perhaps they ought to get involved. I'd like to hear it straight from the strip of flesh's mouth. Hey, Johnny-come-early, what do you think of having your brain melted and your body broken to bits and sucked out of a bloody hole with a vacuum, huh? |
There really ought to be an Occupy Women's Pelvic Region movement. I'd be more than happy to occupy the vaginas of attractive women across the globe for any period of time!
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:11 |
Alitare wrote:
I don't feel anything for or against abortion. I'm sure that these apply to my heart.
-If I were a fetus with the sentience and intellect I now posses, and someone asked me if it was alright for me to be aborted, I'd gurgle a resounding 'No'.
-If I were a fetus without the intellect I now posses, and someone asked me if it was alright for me to be aborted, i'd just gurgle stupidly. Then someone would scramble my baby-brain eggs and I'd be dead. If I'm dead, the world of medical politics begins to matter very little, so I won't be able to care anyway.
You don't see too many of these fetuses picketing abortion clinics, do you? If they're so worked up about the matter then perhaps they ought to get involved. I'd like to hear it straight from the strip of flesh's mouth. Hey, Johnny-come-early, what do you think of having your brain melted and your body broken to bits and sucked out of a bloody hole with a vacuum, huh? |
Agreed 100%
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:13 |
Alitare wrote:
I don't feel anything for or against abortion. I'm sure that these apply to my heart.
-If I were a fetus with the sentience and intellect I now posses, and someone asked me if it was alright for me to be aborted, I'd gurgle a resounding 'No'.
-If I were a fetus without the intellect I now posses, and someone asked me if it was alright for me to be aborted, i'd just gurgle stupidly. Then someone would scramble my baby-brain eggs and I'd be dead. If I'm dead, the world of medical politics begins to matter very little, so I won't be able to care anyway.
You don't see too many of these fetuses picketing abortion clinics, do you? If they're so worked up about the matter then perhaps they ought to get involved. I'd like to hear it straight from the strip of flesh's mouth. Hey, Johnny-come-early, what do you think of having your brain melted and your body broken to bits and sucked out of a bloody hole with a vacuum, huh? |
This is the stupidest thing I've read this year.
I suppose people in comas are just gurgling brain eggs?
If you were just trying to be funny or sarcastic, you failed on both counts.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:20 |
I never made any conjectures there, Rob. I'm not trying to enforce any opinions. What's wrong with cracking jokes? I was half serious and half not. Tell me why it was stupid. Don't sling out insults. You aren't right or wrong for doing so, but I'd prefer if you told me why you feel the way you do.
I never said comatose folks are just gurgling brain eggs. It was a word pairing. On one level, I have zero sympathy for fetuses or the comatose. On the other level, I have near infinite empathy for fetuses and the comatose.
I was trying to be funny and sarcastic, whilst still retaining a modicum of honesty. Although the intended target was myself, I tend to neither agree nor disagree with your appraisal of my humor.
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Hober Mallow
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2011
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 178
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:20 |
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
TheMasterMofo wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
So, since everyone is so concerned about fetuses, how about ensuring that EVERY child has proper medical care, proper food, clothing and housing? Oh, but you don't want to pay for that in the form of taxes, do you Rob? Or are children only important while they're in the womb?
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That would be pretty nice, too. I bet a lot of people would rather pay for that in taxes than pay for some lazy fool to sit around playing XBoX his entire life. Seems a bit diffusional from the issue of abortion, though.
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It is exactly the issue. If you only fight to limit abortion, but do not also want to help children that have already been born, then in my view your position becomes one not of protecting children, but simply one of control over women. You can't preach against abortion and welfare, government funded healthcare for children, school lunches, and so on without being a hypocrite. Then I would say your interest is not in protecting children, but rather in controlling women.
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Is it not enough that our family believes in adopting and fostering children as we are able?
Or are we heartless b*****ds who want to control a woman's body? Four members of my family are alive because their mothers' chose to let them be ADOPTED rather than killed off.
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Erm, you don't know me well enough to know this Rob, but I was also adopted. I was one of the lucky ones though, who had grandparents who wanted to adopt me and give me a loving home. How many children are that lucky? Really? How many children are going hungry? How many are ill without adequate healthcare? How many are homeless? How many are abused by foster parents (note, I am in no way saying anything about your fostering, but many are not so lucky to get decent people caring for them)? And you want to increase their numbers by limiting abortion? My heart breaks for children too, Rob, but not the ones who were aborted, but the ones who are alive and suffering.
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You're right. Children are suffering. Let's kill them.
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The embryo isn't suffering and even if it is all the more reason to abort it. after their born they suffer. what you said barely made sense.
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“When Fortuna spins you downward, go out to a movie and get more out of life.” John Kennedy Toole
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TheMasterMofo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2009
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 220
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:23 |
Hober Mallow wrote:
The embryo isn't suffering and even if it is all the more reason to abort it. after their born they suffer. what you said barely made sense. |
Almost EVERYONE suffers at some point in life... Would you want to deprive other people the right to continue their lives under the guise of "protecting" them from suffering? Personally I'd rather continue living than to be "protected" from suffering in the future. Communism uses the same basic concept to "protect" people from unemployment and class systems. Edit: Yay quotefail
Edited by TheMasterMofo - November 03 2011 at 21:24
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:24 |
Hober Mallow wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
TheMasterMofo wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
So, since everyone is so concerned about fetuses, how about ensuring that EVERY child has proper medical care, proper food, clothing and housing? Oh, but you don't want to pay for that in the form of taxes, do you Rob? Or are children only important while they're in the womb?
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That would be pretty nice, too. I bet a lot of people would rather pay for that in taxes than pay for some lazy fool to sit around playing XBoX his entire life. Seems a bit diffusional from the issue of abortion, though.
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It is exactly the issue. If you only fight to limit abortion, but do not also want to help children that have already been born, then in my view your position becomes one not of protecting children, but simply one of control over women. You can't preach against abortion and welfare, government funded healthcare for children, school lunches, and so on without being a hypocrite. Then I would say your interest is not in protecting children, but rather in controlling women.
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Is it not enough that our family believes in adopting and fostering children as we are able?
Or are we heartless b*****ds who want to control a woman's body? Four members of my family are alive because their mothers' chose to let them be ADOPTED rather than killed off.
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Erm, you don't know me well enough to know this Rob, but I was also adopted. I was one of the lucky ones though, who had grandparents who wanted to adopt me and give me a loving home. How many children are that lucky? Really? How many children are going hungry? How many are ill without adequate healthcare? How many are homeless? How many are abused by foster parents (note, I am in no way saying anything about your fostering, but many are not so lucky to get decent people caring for them)? And you want to increase their numbers by limiting abortion? My heart breaks for children too, Rob, but not the ones who were aborted, but the ones who are alive and suffering.
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You're right. Children are suffering. Let's kill them.
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The embryo isn't suffering and even if it is all the more reason to abort it. after their born they suffer. what you said barely made sense. |
The implication presented was that if someone is suffering (or will possibly suffer), then someone else should be able to snuff them. I disagree with that idea.
Do you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:30 |
Alitare wrote:
I never made any conjectures there, Rob. I'm not trying to enforce any opinions. What's wrong with cracking jokes? I was half serious and half not. Tell me why it was stupid. Don't sling out insults. You aren't right or wrong for doing so, but I'd prefer if you told me why you feel the way you do.
I never said comatose folks are just gurgling brain eggs. It was a word pairing. On one level, I have zero sympathy for fetuses or the comatose. On the other level, I have near infinite empathy for fetuses and the comatose.
I was trying to be funny and sarcastic, whilst still retaining a modicum of honesty. Although the intended target was myself, I tend to neither agree nor disagree with your appraisal of my humor.
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Then I misunderstood you. I apologize for getting worked up when I didn't get your remarks. Though I must confess that I still don't understand them.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:32 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Hober Mallow
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2011
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 178
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:34 |
Epignosis wrote:
Hober Mallow wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
TheMasterMofo wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
So, since everyone is so concerned about fetuses, how about ensuring that EVERY child has proper medical care, proper food, clothing and housing? Oh, but you don't want to pay for that in the form of taxes, do you Rob? Or are children only important while they're in the womb?
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That would be pretty nice, too. I bet a lot of people would rather pay for that in taxes than pay for some lazy fool to sit around playing XBoX his entire life. Seems a bit diffusional from the issue of abortion, though.
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It is exactly the issue. If you only fight to limit abortion, but do not also want to help children that have already been born, then in my view your position becomes one not of protecting children, but simply one of control over women. You can't preach against abortion and welfare, government funded healthcare for children, school lunches, and so on without being a hypocrite. Then I would say your interest is not in protecting children, but rather in controlling women.
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Is it not enough that our family believes in adopting and fostering children as we are able?
Or are we heartless b*****ds who want to control a woman's body? Four members of my family are alive because their mothers' chose to let them be ADOPTED rather than killed off.
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Erm, you don't know me well enough to know this Rob, but I was also adopted. I was one of the lucky ones though, who had grandparents who wanted to adopt me and give me a loving home. How many children are that lucky? Really? How many children are going hungry? How many are ill without adequate healthcare? How many are homeless? How many are abused by foster parents (note, I am in no way saying anything about your fostering, but many are not so lucky to get decent people caring for them)? And you want to increase their numbers by limiting abortion? My heart breaks for children too, Rob, but not the ones who were aborted, but the ones who are alive and suffering.
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You're right. Children are suffering. Let's kill them.
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The embryo isn't suffering and even if it is all the more reason to abort it. after their born they suffer. what you said barely made sense. |
The implication presented was that if someone is suffering (or will possibly suffer), then someone else should be able to snuff them. I disagree with that idea.
Do you?
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Yes, but it isn't about the embryo/fetus anymore it is about the woman carrying the child. You are taking the rights away from a woman and giving them to a fetus that has no emotion, feeling, or any say in society whatsoever.
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“When Fortuna spins you downward, go out to a movie and get more out of life.” John Kennedy Toole
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:35 |
Rob, I am bat-sh*t-crazy. Therefore I am indifferent to abortion. I don't really try to have opinions anymore.
Debate just seems futile to me. If two guys are debating over something factual, they could just look it up. So what's the point? If two guys are debating over opinions, then neither can be objectively right or wrong. So what's the point?
I only debate to make people think - not because it's right or wrong, or because I want to win or change people's minds, simply because I like making folks think about things.
I want to take everybody in the whole wide world, anybody who has ever been hurt or cried or felt pain, and be hurt, cry, and feel that pain with them, through their eyes. I wish I had the power to make sure that no living creature ever had to feel their pain alone, that I feel it as they do, simultaneously. I want to feel everything in the universe from the grandest peaks of joviality to the deepest recesses of contrition.
Anywho, there's no need to apologize unless you wish to. I wasn't angry or upset. You weren't wrong.
Edited by Alitare - November 03 2011 at 21:36
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:37 |
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What if two people are arguing over a fact which has yet to be proven?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 21:42 |
Hober Mallow wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Hober Mallow wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
TheMasterMofo wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
So, since everyone is so concerned about fetuses, how about ensuring that EVERY child has proper medical care, proper food, clothing and housing? Oh, but you don't want to pay for that in the form of taxes, do you Rob? Or are children only important while they're in the womb?
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That would be pretty nice, too. I bet a lot of people would rather pay for that in taxes than pay for some lazy fool to sit around playing XBoX his entire life. Seems a bit diffusional from the issue of abortion, though.
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It is exactly the issue. If you only fight to limit abortion, but do not also want to help children that have already been born, then in my view your position becomes one not of protecting children, but simply one of control over women. You can't preach against abortion and welfare, government funded healthcare for children, school lunches, and so on without being a hypocrite. Then I would say your interest is not in protecting children, but rather in controlling women.
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Is it not enough that our family believes in adopting and fostering children as we are able?
Or are we heartless b*****ds who want to control a woman's body? Four members of my family are alive because their mothers' chose to let them be ADOPTED rather than killed off.
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Erm, you don't know me well enough to know this Rob, but I was also adopted. I was one of the lucky ones though, who had grandparents who wanted to adopt me and give me a loving home. How many children are that lucky? Really? How many children are going hungry? How many are ill without adequate healthcare? How many are homeless? How many are abused by foster parents (note, I am in no way saying anything about your fostering, but many are not so lucky to get decent people caring for them)? And you want to increase their numbers by limiting abortion? My heart breaks for children too, Rob, but not the ones who were aborted, but the ones who are alive and suffering.
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You're right. Children are suffering. Let's kill them.
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The embryo isn't suffering and even if it is all the more reason to abort it. after their born they suffer. what you said barely made sense. |
The implication presented was that if someone is suffering (or will possibly suffer), then someone else should be able to snuff them. I disagree with that idea.
Do you?
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Yes, but it isn't about the embryo/fetus anymore it is about the woman carrying the child. You are taking the rights away from a woman and giving them to a fetus that has no emotion, feeling, or any say in society whatsoever. |
Don't distract from the question.
The woman has (or had)
1) A right not to have sex
2) A right to use birth control
3) A right to give the child to willing parents
4) Keep the child
A comatose person inflicts burdens upon others, yet has no emotion, feeling, or any say in society whatsoever. Should they be killed?
If a woman suffers during or after an abortion, should she be killed too?
What a cruel world!
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 22:16 |
Epignosis wrote:
Don't distract from the question.
The woman has (or had)
1) A right not to have sex Well then there's that whole rape thing.
2) A right to use birth control. Well, there's certain groups that would like to take that away.
3) A right to give the child to willing parents, ideally but the state can take that away if she's a crack addict or something.
4) Keep the child. Even that's far from absolute in practice.
A comatose person inflicts burdens upon others, yet has no emotion, feeling, or any say in society whatsoever. Should they be killed? If they're dead should they be kept on life support forever? I guess it depends on how much money your have, to support all people indefinitely despite their lack of money would be socialism
If a woman suffers during or after an abortion, should she be killed too? Yes her suffering would be helped by killing her, it would at least end her suffering, but let's not let her have any say in the matter because we know what's better for her.
What a cruel world!
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Most interesting when you separate this writing from the quote pyramid.
Edited by Slartibartfast - November 03 2011 at 22:22
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 22:20 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Most interesting when you separate this writing from the quote pyramid.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 22:21 |
Epignosis wrote:
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Edited by Padraic - November 03 2011 at 22:22
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 22:28 |
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Thanks Pat. I should've kept my mouth shut rather than be misquoted!
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 22:29 |
Hey, I was just embellishing things. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32550
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 22:33 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Hey, I was just embellishing things.
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Isn't that what liberals do? 
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