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timothy leary 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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 Posted: October 29 2011 at 23:21 |
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and I meant it when I said great philosophy, no sarcasm intended
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 07:19 |
 AlexDOM wrote:
Neal Morse rules period!!! Constantly puts out the most quality prog with lyrics that transcend everything!!!! The man is a legend. |
So says the fanboy. Non of the very popular bands today have the near universal appeal that the classics seem to, whether its Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson, Dream Theater, Opeth, Phideaux, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, The Flower Kings etc, they all have a larg enumber of detractors to offset the fans and those bands that are actually making music thats as experimental as the early groups tend to appeal to a much smaller audiance and even have people out there that deliberatyl give 1 star ratings without listening just to keep the average arteficially low (I know this happens with Kayo Dot).
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 07:28 |
sleeper wrote:
AlexDOM wrote:
Neal Morse rules period!!! Constantly puts out the most quality prog with lyrics that transcend everything!!!! The man is a legend. |
So says the fanboy.
Non of the very popular bands today have the near universal appeal that the classics seem to, whether its Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson, Dream Theater, Opeth, Phideaux, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, The Flower Kings etc, they all have a larg enumber of detractors to offset the fans and those bands that are actually making music thats as experimental as the early groups tend to appeal to a much smaller audiance and even have people out there that deliberatyl give 1 star ratings without listening just to keep the average arteficially low (I know this happens with Kayo Dot).
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I have only heard Choirs of the Eye and Coyote and can't fathom why anybody would want to give it 1 star.  Guess such people take ratings too seriously.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 08:53 |
rogerthat wrote:
Guess such people take ratings too seriously.
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Rogerthat.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 10:00 |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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JS19
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 10 2010
Location: Lancaster, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 10:13 |
I'm pretty sure what happens now is that the first couple of weeks into a new release it rockets from fanboy reviews, then everyone moans how a new album does not belong in the top 10 fairly vehemently.
Then people review it really low to counterbalance the fact it's being compared to the classics.
Them the actual reviews come in , without any contextual leanings, so the albums actually get reviewed as a piece of music, rather than the 'soundtrack to a time' or whatever.
Because these new albums can never have the legacy of the oldies, no new album is going to break the top 10.
Maybe if someone finds some lost Genesis tracks and releases them or something, but this site will have been going so long by the time any new albums have a legacy, no-one will really care (if anyone really cares in the first place).
Edited by JS19 - October 30 2011 at 10:14
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 10:26 |
^ If PA had existed in the so called halycon days of 1968-73 what you describe would have happened then also.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 11:30 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
^ If PA had existed in the so called halycon days of 1968-73 what you describe would have happened then also.
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The archive would be very small, and The Beatles would be in the top ten. 
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Isa
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 26 2009
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 15:41 |
^ I agree. The problem with labeling modern music "a classic for the ages" is that it really does take many generations of people dying off who are fanboys, and seeing what modern albums really do stick around to become "classics."
Give it a few decades longer, and if PA is still around (sure hope it is!) I bet the top 10 or 20 will look very different. Rossini was much more highly rated than Beethoven during his time.
Edited by Isa - October 30 2011 at 15:43
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The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7411
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 16:05 |
Not so. The "functional equivalent" of PA back then were the rock magazines, including Circus, Creem, etc.
I was totally addicted to Circus in the early 1970's, and their coverage of, and praise for, the originators of the movement was stunning.
Particularly impressive was Circus' coverage of Genesis, with very large, full-color photos of Gabriel in Slipperman attire. They also had excellent interviews with Fripp (LTIA era), Wakeman (CTTE era), and all the rest.
These bands filled huge venues for good reasons.....they put on excellent shows, they were rehearsed to perfection, and they were consummate showmen. I saw shows including CTTE, TAAB, LTIA, and Karnevil 9. Just stunning.
My own feeling is that the musicianship of the newest practitioners of this craft are just not up to snuff with the old guys. Fripp crossed over from traditional jazz, and he used to practice for 8 hours a day. Howe, Zappa and others were similarly driven. I just don't hear that level of dedication in the music of the newest acts.
Sometimes lightening strikes in history.....the Romanticism movement in English poetry, Classical/Romantic movement era in classical music, Bebop movement in jazz, etc.
I'm just waiting for the next big thing.....ideally, it will break the guitar/bass guitar/drums/keyboard paradigm that prog seems to rely upon so heavily.
Edited by cstack3 - October 30 2011 at 16:06
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 18434
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Posted: October 30 2011 at 18:20 |
cstack3 wrote:
I was totally addicted to Circus in the early 1970's, and their coverage of, and praise for, the originators of the movement was stunning. |
Ah, Circus! I remember it fondly. I especially remember fawning over my buddy's copy with Signals-era Rush on the cover!! He was the guy that got me into Rush so, no, I didn't pawn it (but I did get to paw it)! What was that other mag, the one for headbangers? Oh, yeah... Hit Parader! Yes, I owned a few.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 12:32 |
cstack3 wrote:
Not so. The "functional equivalent" of PA back then were the rock magazines, including Circus, Creem, etc.
I was totally addicted to Circus in the early 1970's, and their coverage of, and praise for, the originators of the movement was stunning.
Particularly impressive was Circus' coverage of Genesis, with very large, full-color photos of Gabriel in Slipperman attire. They also had excellent interviews with Fripp (LTIA era), Wakeman (CTTE era), and all the rest.
These bands filled huge venues for good reasons.....they put on excellent shows, they were rehearsed to perfection, and they were consummate showmen. I saw shows including CTTE, TAAB, LTIA, and Karnevil 9. Just stunning.
My own feeling is that the musicianship of the newest practitioners of this craft are just not up to snuff with the old guys. Fripp crossed over from traditional jazz, and he used to practice for 8 hours a day. Howe, Zappa and others were similarly driven. I just don't hear that level of dedication in the music of the newest acts.
Sometimes lightening strikes in history.....the Romanticism movement in English poetry, Classical/Romantic movement era in classical music, Bebop movement in jazz, etc.
I'm just waiting for the next big thing.....ideally, it will break the guitar/bass guitar/drums/keyboard paradigm that prog seems to rely upon so heavily.
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I was joking..... and you were there, so I would never question your knowledge! And am I right in thinking that between them Yes and Led Zeppelin topped most of Melody Maker's annual 'best band' polls? Indeed, nothing's changed in that respect. Regarding the next lightening strike, I think it would be very difficult for anyone to come up with anything staggeringly original any more..... because the growth of music is exponential rather than linear. i.e. there is a hell of a lot more music now than 50 years ago, or even 20 years ago. Genres are saturated (not a bad thing, but not innovative either), and the crossing/mixing up of genres is becoming a cliche in itself. What hasn't been done?? If I knew, I'd be doing it!
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 12:44 |
cstack3 wrote:
Not so. The "functional equivalent" of PA back then were the rock magazines, including Circus, Creem, etc.
I was totally addicted to Circus in the early 1970's, and their coverage of, and praise for, the originators of the movement was stunning.
Particularly impressive was Circus' coverage of Genesis, with very large, full-color photos of Gabriel in Slipperman attire. They also had excellent interviews with Fripp (LTIA era), Wakeman (CTTE era), and all the rest.
These bands filled huge venues for good reasons.....they put on excellent shows, they were rehearsed to perfection, and they were consummate showmen. I saw shows including CTTE, TAAB, LTIA, and Karnevil 9. Just stunning.
My own feeling is that the musicianship of the newest practitioners of this craft are just not up to snuff with the old guys. Fripp crossed over from traditional jazz, and he used to practice for 8 hours a day. Howe, Zappa and others were similarly driven. I just don't hear that level of dedication in the music of the newest acts.
Sometimes lightening strikes in history.....the Romanticism movement in English poetry, Classical/Romantic movement era in classical music, Bebop movement in jazz, etc.
I'm just waiting for the next big thing.....ideally, it will break the guitar/bass guitar/drums/keyboard paradigm that prog seems to rely upon so heavily.
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Depends on what part of prog your into as far as technicality goes, I listen to a lot of modern bands that would blow Yes into the weeds, for the most part, on technical proficiancy but 2 of the 3 best albums released this year for me rely far more on atmospher than technical stunts.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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zappaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 19:13 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Why do those who otherwise espouse democratic outcomes only complain when the results don't suit them?
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Human nature.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1327
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 19:45 |
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Steven Wilson's new solo album was in the Top 20 or so, for a brief period of time.
If he can be in the Top 20 then my Perfect Element Pt. III can be Top 4.
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 19:59 |
timothy leary wrote:
For as long as I have been coming to this site the top ten albums have been the same. Like the ten commandments, are they written in stone?? Is there any chance a new artist can break into the top ten and stay there? Who would it be? Is it really so progressive if nobody can come along and outdo the pioneers? |
It's certainly not going to be a new album, unless Anglagard's upcoming album is somehow better than their first two brilliant albums. And lord help us if metal is ever allowed to punch into the top 10.
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 Time always wins.
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 20:04 |
I would be all for the Genesis albums being bumped out of the top 10, though. Have a feeling I'm in the super-minority on that one  .
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Time always wins.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7411
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 20:07 |
thehallway wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
Not so. The "functional equivalent" of PA back then were the rock magazines, including Circus, Creem, etc.
I was totally addicted to Circus in the early 1970's, and their coverage of, and praise for, the originators of the movement was stunning.
Particularly impressive was Circus' coverage of Genesis, with very large, full-color photos of Gabriel in Slipperman attire. They also had excellent interviews with Fripp (LTIA era), Wakeman (CTTE era), and all the rest.
These bands filled huge venues for good reasons.....they put on excellent shows, they were rehearsed to perfection, and they were consummate showmen. I saw shows including CTTE, TAAB, LTIA, and Karnevil 9. Just stunning.
My own feeling is that the musicianship of the newest practitioners of this craft are just not up to snuff with the old guys. Fripp crossed over from traditional jazz, and he used to practice for 8 hours a day. Howe, Zappa and others were similarly driven. I just don't hear that level of dedication in the music of the newest acts.
Sometimes lightening strikes in history.....the Romanticism movement in English poetry, Classical/Romantic movement era in classical music, Bebop movement in jazz, etc.
I'm just waiting for the next big thing.....ideally, it will break the guitar/bass guitar/drums/keyboard paradigm that prog seems to rely upon so heavily.
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I was joking..... and you were there, so I would never question your knowledge! And am I right in thinking that between them Yes and Led Zeppelin topped most of Melody Maker's annual 'best band' polls? Indeed, nothing's changed in that respect. Regarding the next lightening strike, I think it would be very difficult for anyone to come up with anything staggeringly original any more..... because the growth of music is exponential rather than linear. i.e. there is a hell of a lot more music now than 50 years ago, or even 20 years ago. Genres are saturated (not a bad thing, but not innovative either), and the crossing/mixing up of genres is becoming a cliche in itself. What hasn't been done?? If I knew, I'd be doing it! |
HAR! Damn, we should get all the musicians on this site together and jam sometime!!
Honestly, there is still much to invent. Look how the synthesizer evolved from the very primitive wave-form oscillator machines used for 1950's sci fi movies, to "Switched On Bach" & then to Tangerine Dream and onwards. Quantuum leaps. Now, people compose songs on their i-Phones. Amazing.
I spend time searching around for Indo or Pak-Prog, Chinese Prog etc. There are some rather remarkable forms of music in the weeds that have yet to be amplified, modified, and progged-up. Hell, look what ELP and Yes did with some basic Mozart/Bach formulae!!
China has 1.3 billion folks, and yet they seem largely invisible to me in the prog & rock universe. I know they have some musicians (Gibson has a lovely guitar store in Shanghai), but their political system is very stifling. Who knows what may yet come out of the East?
The best is yet to come! I'm quite excited at the possibilities that new technologies will afford. The Mellotron, by itself, helped to blow doors off. Let's see what happens when the tribes get amplification.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18005
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 20:44 |
timothy leary wrote:
For as long as I have been coming to this site the top ten albums have been the same. Like the ten commandments, are they written in stone?? Is there any chance a new artist can break into the top ten and stay there? Who would it be? Is it really so progressive if nobody can come along and outdo the pioneers? |
IF we are going to make this music important ... there is a way that we can say that Beethoven and Tchaikovsky were the better known Romantic Classical music composers ... but sadly ... in the end, all we're doing is making sure that the classification of "progressive" is just more popular music ... and since there is so much and most people don't think that it is very good anyway, it is best to simply do the one thing that we were fighting against at the time ... the ultimate irony of it all ... we become the very thing that we all stood up against, that helped create the music ... but 30 years later we don't care what those "kids" cared about, now, do we?
I DON'T think the whole thing has to be "scrubbed", that would be senile and sad, but it should list "artists", not albums ... and it would give the genre a lot more credibility ... because as it is right now, it is just another top ten! And one that David Letterman is too stupid to know about!
Edited by moshkito - October 31 2011 at 20:46
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 20:47 |
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