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Joined: March 13 2010
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Topic: What you think? Posted: October 28 2011 at 05:54
The big four ( Yes, King Crimson, Genesis; ELP) are always taken as reference for the prog movement. But do you think we can say some post 80's are better or have done better that those 70's bands. I don't want to go in the usual "yeah Genesis so over rated......" or "Dream theater so under rated........" but really to know if you thin some 80's, 90's or 00's bands have done better musically than the 70's giants.
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 07:12
I don't know about better but there's plenty that have done as well. If I were to go back in time to the late '70's and recommend to me artists that were yet to come, Djam Karet, Porcupine Tree, Radiohead, Talisma, Knifeworld, The Reasoning come to mind.
Edited by Slartibartfast - October 28 2011 at 07:30
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 08:50
I don't want to say better even if genetrally better tfor me, but I think there are many bands which released more sophisticated music than the Prog giants commonly did both in the 70's and beyond. The first one to spring to my mind as a post 70s project is U Totem.
Volapuk, Aranis,Guapo, After Dinner, Non Credo, Doctor Nerve, Raional Diet, and Kayo Dot are some others off the top of my head that I think released more satisfying works than what most of the giants did.
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 10:41
It's such a difficult, close to meaningless question. After 40+ years of prog, so much prog music has been made, with so many branching out into different sub-genres, much of it so very good, that it's not possible or even not fair to compare.
If just the "big four" output was the only outstanding prog ever made, the world would be a very sad place and we would not probably have this site to discuss about it.
But they are still and will always remain powerful reference points, also because inventing the genre is not the same as developing it.
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 12:00
There has been a great deal of good music created since that seminal era. 'Better' is a word with many subjective implications, but in all aspects (technicality [complexity, sophistication, artfulness], professionalism, creativity, aesthetics, personal tastes, are all the ones I can think of), it is clear that some artists have matched these classics in some ways and that some have even succeeded them in some ways. Personally, I cannot say more than that, since the question is so very broad.
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 12:27
Theriver wrote:
The big four ( Yes, King Crimson, Genesis; ELP) are always taken as reference for the prog movement. But do you think we can say some post 80's are better or have done better that those 70's bands. I don't want to go in the usual "yeah Genesis so over rated......" or "Dream theater so under rated........" but really to know if you thin some 80's, 90's or 00's bands have done better musically than the 70's giants.
Agree with Gerinski...The only way to become better than these bands is to establish a new rock movement IMO.All these names you refer (and some more like RUSH,GENTLE GIANT,JETHRO TULL etc.) were more than pioneers of rock,no matter their style was theatrical,Classical-inspired,mysterious or complex,they influenced thousands of bands over decades and the current big names of the Progressive Rock scene like SPOCK'S BEARD,THE TANGENT,THE FLOWER KINGS etc. and so many others have a great personal sound,but possibly they wouldn't have even existed if there were not the bands you mentioned.
Unless you refer to bands with a style far from the Classic Prog sound (like for example post-rock).
Edited by psarros - October 28 2011 at 12:30
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 12:54
Easy Livin wrote:
Logan wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Do we even argee with the "Big four" as suggested?
If I were to pick four off the top of my head, that's not a bad set.
If I were to choose a big four, those are the ones I would say.
Personally, I'd place Pink Floyd before ELP in any "big four".
I much prefer Pink Floyd to ELP, but I don't think of it as nearly quintessentially Prog as genre. I don't think it's nearly as representative on the whole with what most of the public who know of Prog would think of as Prog. To me, ELP is a prime example of the excesses associated with. Pink Floyd I don't consider as Prog.
I don't want to say better even if genetrally better tfor me, but I think there are many bands which released more sophisticated music than the Prog giants commonly did both in the 70's and beyond. The first one to spring to my mind as a post 70s project is U Totem.
Volapuk, Aranis,Guapo, After Dinner, Non Credo, Doctor Nerve, Raional Diet, and Kayo Dot are some others off the top of my head that I think released more satisfying works than what most of the giants did.
This band's music is timeless! It is a form of "Chamber Rock" to me and a style such as this wasn't present during the early 70's. If it was....I am not aware of it. Gentle Giant presented snippets or even fully written sections of the style on albums like Octopus. However even then it was not fully expanded like it was with band's like Univers Zero in the late 70's. This style is an exception to the rule when making the analogy presented in this thread. Chamber music .....I have been a huge fan of for many years....whether composed by 20th century composers or people like Mozart. Chamber Rock was a developing stage during the mid to late 70's. I don't recall it being fully developed during the 1972 invasion of ELP, Genesis, or Jethro Tull. All the bands you have mentioned are excellent and I truly love the style of writing.....BUT....my love for it stems from the extensive exposure I had with John Cage's string quartets and so many others as a teenager. Otherwise it can be difficult for a person to simply dive into the style without a clue of history as to where it derives from. How it was influenced to be written...so to speak. Chamber Rock is a kind of school that breeds musicians and fans who grew up on 20th century Avant-Garde.
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 13:04
I love chamber rock and was into chamber music since I was a child. There are other chamber rock ones from the late 60s and early 70s. I can't type much now easily since I'm just using an iPod, but good post.
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 13:16
These big four do not represent all 70s prog, much less all prog. And it is debatable whether they represent the best of 70s prog either. I would certainly take either of Floyd, Tull or Gentle Giant over ELP. And in terms of sophistication, rank Gentle Giant second only to KC. And even then, Gentle Giant were very unique...they were daring enough to write complex 4-minuters right at the height of prog. If we really cover all facets of 70s prog and include Can, Henry Cow, Magma, Gong, Kraftwerk, then in totality it is simply formidable and tough to surpass. But there may be and have been bands from the 80s or later that did better than any one of these bands individually, of course.
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Posted: October 28 2011 at 15:37
The word better of course is subjunctive. The fact is, that 90% of the music I listen is post-70s (and about 90% I would say of the music I listen could be regarded as progressive or experimental or prog in one way or another). So if I judge by my music taste alone (which as you know, is the one truly perfect music taste), the entire 70s are overrated, which isn't entirely true, I just don't think the 70s were better than any other decade. So um... better? I don't know. I sure do like more post-70s music though.
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