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The Krautrock Space |
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moshkito 
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17516 |
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 Posted: October 12 2011 at 21:19 |
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I have always had a very high appreciation for all the Cosmic Courier stuff, and both "Planeten Sit-In" and "Cosmic Jokers" amnd great favorites of mine that burned out about 2 or 3 LP's and am now on my 2nd or 3rd CD already ... I can close my eyes and this is really neat and trippy stuff ... but I really think that you can not be "beat induced" or "oriented" like so many of the "progressive" folks tend to be ... this is free form music at its best, even if both Manuel and Klaus do not exactly have very nice things to say about them ... the music is about the "experience" itself, and has absolutely nothing to do with "music" at all ... it's just the extended feeling, and this is an area and appreciation that progressive listeners are not very good at, and have to have their lyrics the way they want to, or the beats the way they want to, and the chord/time changes the way they want to. In that sense, the experimentation in these is much farther away from most progressive music, that simply comes off as just a different note on the music scales.
Krautrock, above all, was about "getting into the vibe of the music" ... and that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the beat! ... and guess what album that is on that we're still not hearing! It was the only time, and place, where Tim Leary actually said something of value ... which I think is the only place he actually learned something and was not a joke for the media!
One of my favorites? From "New Age of Earth", at mom's place at the lake, at midnight, laying down on the dock and the music is playing out loud ... and you are just watching the night sky and seeing a coouple of shooting stars here and there ... and a magnificent view of the Milky Way ...
And this is the reason why Guru Guru, AD2, Klaus and Manuel and Popol Vuh ... ARE ... so important. In the end, it is not about my opinions or ideas ... is about the feeling, and you have to convey it and let people know that expression is important and very valuable to your internal constitution ... you might never learn that until too late in life! ... and emptiness ensues ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Mellotron Storm
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Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13502 |
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Posted: October 12 2011 at 21:28 |
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^ Well said Moshkito
 I agree with you too about the Cosmic Courier stuff despite the negative opinions about how they came about.Why does that even matter, it's the music that counts and the music is fantastic.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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The Wrinkler
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Joined: December 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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Posted: October 13 2011 at 18:29 |
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Yes! The Cosmic Jokers are awesome! This is what I was looking for, that classic Kraut jam, from a super star line-up! Very atmosphere feeling, it's a nice transition for me until I get to the more tranquil kraut. PV's, Hosianna Mantra is beautiful!
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Guldbamsen
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Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
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Posted: October 14 2011 at 14:13 |
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Hello my fellow space cadets!
Now bear with me, because this post will be enormous due to vids, but if this site isn´t about sharing music and letting other people know about long lost gems and such, then I have completely missed the point  We often talk about the big ones ie ADll, Neu!, Can, Ash Ra and the works, but the scene was so broad and eclectic - that I sometimes feel there are a lot of unmentioned artists we are missing out on. Some of these are old favorites of mine, and I just surfed YouTube to dig up some tracks from these under the radar releases. So without further ado - NI!! Hanuman´s self titled debut from 71. Great jazzy Kraut with lots of wonderful jamming: Silberbart from 71. Mad hellish and out there - in a brilliant way  Gift and their self titled debut(72). Heavy rocking and slightly bluesy: Dschinn(72). I love the drum work on this song. Inventive and ballsy: One of those Lord of the Rings inspired bands, but to be fair - I do think that The Nazgul(75) manage to conjure up some sounds and tapestries evoking the blackness of Mordor. Would have made Tolkien proud: LA! NEU. A relatively new development of NEU! - but only featuring Dinger with a lot of guests. This is a wonderful late Kraut release called Year of the Tiger from 1998(This is only an excerpt, because the tracks are over 20 min): Epsilon´s self titled from 71 is also completely overlooked, and that´s a real shame. Hard rocking and at times dappling in fusion: Sergius Golowin and Klaus Schulze´s take on devotional music such as you´d hear on a Popol Vuh album from around the same time(73)(well the album is packed with recognizable figures from the scene such as Jerry Berkers and Walter Westrupp plus more). I love this album even if it´s called something as hippydippy as Lord Krishna von Goloka :German Oak´s way of tramping all over Hitler´s dream. It´s muddy, free, rocking and all over the place - in a fantastic and gripping way(72): Eulenspygel from 72. Great band and both this album called Ausschuss and their second one with the chicken in the frying pan on the cover are fabulous examples of the scene: |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Mellotron Storm
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Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13502 |
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Posted: October 16 2011 at 23:01 |
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Some cool stuff there Bamsen. I like that Epsilon track and also the Hanuman one. I do have three of these but it was great to hear the other seven.Thanks !
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Guldbamsen
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Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
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Posted: October 17 2011 at 10:01 |
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^No prob John.
Those 2 records also happen to be the most recent entries on my Iphone alongside that mad Silberbart album... The Nazgul one is a real weird one, and the track I posted here is perhaps the most accessible on the album. I´m listening to Gila´s live album Nightworks right now, and before that I had Agitation Free - Last on. I hear a lot of influences from the Frisco scene happening some 5 to 10 years earlier - y´know the bluesy jamming and improvisation/exploration at the front wheel. Brilliant stuff!! Music made for caravan dreams and starry nights. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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peste
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Joined: November 29 2008 Location: Paris Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: October 17 2011 at 14:43 |
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peste
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Posted: October 17 2011 at 14:49 |
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My Solid Ground - The Executioner
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17516 |
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Posted: October 17 2011 at 18:31 |
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It is no secret that there is a lot of San Francisco influence on this music. And remember that about that time even the Grateful Dead was doing 4 and 5 hour shows and very long jams that probably would make "krautrock" blush ... but I have to tell you that I have not been able to get a hold of any GD bootleg or old stuff to study this more. I have heard some and the issue was that the bootleg would only play a portion of it and fade in and out, making it look like a song, and it wasn't. I have no idea, and don't remember, any of these titles.
And you must read Hattler's interview in this website also ... he says that in his experience that once they got stuck, and Manny just said ... invent something ... and off to the races they were! That's courage!
The difference, and there is a possibility that it is not true that there is any difference, is that the musical history in California was not considered important, except for the "hits" and because of it, a lot of the music died in America. To give you another idea, the early Santana had long cuts and jams ... now go look at the 3 minute songs ... they can't jam for 30 seconds! It's just a solo over and out!
In the end, the whole California scene was too stoned and screwed up to get any appreciation for the music, and the only ones that are "appreciated" these days were the ones that "sold" and had a hit. But there were some magnificent things done that are now a part of the "wasteland" that became the flowers in your hair bologne ...
Europe, by virtue of the music scene in the late 60's that was going after experimentation, had a lot less problems with these folks using electric and electronic equipment, than in America, where the "electric" is STILL not considered music and local and big time orchestras STILL will not play any of that material, which tells you that they don't believe that music existed at the time that was important. So yes, you can see Klaus with Lisa and then an Evening of Edgar Froese's music with an Orchestra ... and a lot more ... you still don't have those jerks in Los Angeles do An Evening of Frank Zappa music ... unless ZPZ comes by, which is already a very tired group!
It's horrendous and pathetic and a gross enfatuation with the star syndromme and the top ten thing ... and we keep supporting it despite the fact that the very music we love got its start by being against the "establishment", and this is one of the greatest ironies I have ever seen these days in this board and when someone says ... they are playing "prog" ... yeah ... I can hear Stravinsky now ... "I'm doing prog" ... and at least he was!
The "star" thing, was created by Hollywood, as a way to advertise their movies better, and it has been a part of American life for 75 to 100 years now, and it is the base and the root of the government design these days ... everything is about the "top" and the "this" and "that" and no one questions it because they make the most money and have the best advertising, and this is the single biggest killer of the arts ... and an abuse of the priviledge and the old Plato theorem that said ... might makes right ... which of course is much more important than that idiot that said ... greed is good ... but it defines and explains the American way better. That is not to say that it doesn't happen elsewhere in Europe or other places in the world, butEurope has one advantage America doesn't have ... different countries and cultures next door ... that stay different ... in America they make sure that culture is non-existent in order to make sure the status quo is the "value" behind the sales and the "system".
You have to be a massively strong artist with an inner constitution of a rock, to withstand that all your life ... in America!
I have more stories on this, but you mught want to check out the Guy Guden Blog on the one on Frank Zappa ... it is so sad it's not funny! But it tells you what the whole thing has become and how boring ... and the music dies and will die some more! Basically, the difference was that Kraurock had more connections with classical and other artists and the connection helped make it all more important. In America, other than Andy Warhol in NY and maybe Schenken SF, I doubt you can name another artist, writer or painter. And of course, no one in this board likes to discuss the Beat Poets and Writers, but that is another issue altogether! Krautrock, can mention just about all writers, painters, musicians and film makers from the mid 60's all the way to the mid 70's ... you can't do that in American music at all! And by that time Andy had already forsaken his friends from the beginning! Edited by moshkito - October 17 2011 at 18:46 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Guldbamsen
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Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
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Posted: October 17 2011 at 18:52 |
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I can appreciate what you´re saying Mosh, and to some extent I agree with you. Much of the music industry has evolved into some kind of pseudo sport and the fire and gasoline that initially started all this we now call prog, seems forgotten or set aside for a quick buck or whatever. BUT even though a lot of us throw words around like prog and best, perpetuating the laid down course - I do think and certainly hope that we don´t take these things too seriously, because then the music will surely die some more. Oh well, once borne everything dies - it´s just a matter of how you look at things, or how you perceive and relish life. One could state that you´re dying as soon as you pop out of your momma´s baking oven. The establishment was always our minds, at least that´s my take on it, but I see the irony and it is dripping down the walls. Not all in PA are starstruck and infatuated with putting tags on art though - at least I hope not, but the main thing here is to have a positive outlook on things even if we feel the music is being "corrupted". I actually have some of those Dick´s picks from the Grateful Dead - one with a 30 plus min version of Dark Star that sends shivers down my spine every time I spin it, and to me that is quite enough - if only for that brief moment. Who cares if it´s a 40 year old performance, it still lives every single time I put it on. Oh, and I wasn´t really aware of the differences between the American scene and the European - I would have thought that you guys over there would have cherished and honored the vibe of old - and treated those wonderful branches of freeflowing rock music with a bit more admiration. What about Phish?
Edited by Guldbamsen - October 17 2011 at 18:59 |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Mellotron Storm
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Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13502 |
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Posted: October 21 2011 at 22:33 |
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Just had to give some props to "Canaxis" by CAN's Holger Czukay.Well worth checking out.There's something really special about this album that will appeal to both Krautrock and Electronic fans alike.Experimental music at it's best.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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SaltyJon
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 08 2008 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 28772 |
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Posted: October 21 2011 at 22:52 |
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Canaxis is a really great album indeed. Boat-Woman-Song in particular really grabs me, it's a haunting piece.
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hellogoodbye
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Posted: October 22 2011 at 00:49 |
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For once, some classical old news. Aflter all, Holger Czukay was a Stockhausen student !
 MUSIC IS ONE ! LIGETI : HUNGARIAN ROCK STRAVINSKY : EBONY CONCERTO FRANCOIS BAYLE : ROSACE 3 DEBUSSY : TRIO SONATA |
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Mellotron Storm
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Posted: October 23 2011 at 20:22 |
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Love that song Jon.It is haunting and it grabs me too,i just want to play it again and again.It's cool how Holger takes snippets from his short wave radio and mixes them with other sounds.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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SaltyJon
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Posted: October 23 2011 at 20:24 |
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Definitely cool, indeed. Every time I listen to it, I hear something more pop out of the mix. In fact, it was only last time or the time before when I finally noticed/recognized his bass line. It's not exactly as prominent as it was in Can, that's for sure. |
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moshkito
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Posted: October 25 2011 at 19:11 |
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Agreed.
A lot of the music is not "positive", and ITCOTKC is one of those ... read on those lyrics and they are nice poetry but rather depressing and actually rather sad. I listen you do not hear ... as is the case with the Wind. Aqualung is not exactly positive. And wow ... the one piece that is positive, and inspirational is one that people either love or hate ... Topographic Oceans.
I never thought of the literature of the time and place, as positive or negative. I never thought of the music of the time as negative or positive. I never thought of the arts of the time as negative or positive. That metronome goes both ways ... but what is harder to distinguish is the way the work was developed and what came out of it.
It's really hard to explain to foks here about this, when all they know is "progressive" and will not even try to find out what all the artistic bruhaha is all about. How can I explain to anyone here that a playwright that even had his work done at the Royal Shakespeare Company even had his words used up by a couple of rock bands and also a couple of movie makers ... and some folks here don't care because that thought is not "progressive" but their idea is! It's almost the same thing when we say that Pete Sinfield is a lousy lyric writer ... he didn't write lyrics. He wrote poetry! And it was a way to do something different, instead of the chinsy rock music lyrics that had been a part of rock music in radio ... sweet little sixteen baby!
Thank you ...
I am not too happy that the American scene is not given enough credit for being more progressive, specially when so much of it came from here. But "acceptance" and "understanding" or the influences is an interesting thing ... I mean ... listen to this ... I just saw the film on Richard Thompson, and Joe Boyd is talking about Fairport Convention and Sandy Denny ... "these kids playing this very West Coast sounding thing ... doing Richard and Mimi Farina, Bob Dylan ... " ... and stuff like this became massive later in the revival of the folk/rock thing in England ... and this is the same guy that had Incredible String Band, Pink Floyd and a whole bunch of the Harvest folks! ... makes you wonder who the real "progressive" is really ... and it is about a feeling and expression ... not an idea!
London, had one major point that others didn't ... the press and the education ... and they wrote and tried to make it better ... in America, everyone was too stoned to know the difference and make a difference! So stoned that there are no tapes or boots from the era by anyone on any concert at the Fillmore ... how's that for weird, bizarre and off kilter!
For some reason, I have not been able to get onto Phish, and don't ask me why, because I have not figured it out yet. Maybe I am too "classically" minded and musically attuned in order to get into this stuff. But it doesn't make sense how I can get off on total improvisation, but Phish, for me, is not improvisation.
But nothing, explains Krautrock better to me, than Edgar Froese's words in that BBC special ... "new time, new place, new people ... no past and we were there to create a new future ... " .... (paraphrased) ... and that is exactly what it was all about ... and it had more in common iwth what was happening in San Francisco ... a reactionary thing done with drugs against the "establishment" (remember the beginning of the show ... with Jimi and All Along the Watchtower -- brought tears to my eyes ... it was WITH IT! -- and you can see why ITCOTKC was so important then!) ... that got lost.
Btw ... I stopped doing drugs and almost all drink the day someone in California said ... "let them get stoned and I will win all the elections!" ... and he became president. So, in the end, the very thing we were fighting against, we forgot about and gave up on ... !
But in Europe, the artistic side of these things lived on, and this is the thing that I love the most about the "krautrock" tradition. And the "progressive" tradition .... they are still ALIVE. Edited by moshkito - October 25 2011 at 19:25 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Mellotron Storm
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Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13502 |
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Posted: October 25 2011 at 22:02 |
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Had a listen to CODE III today.This project was put together simply to show-case this new sound technology and Klaus Schulze was asked to take part, and he not only accepted but he helped modify the studio in order to make it happen.So here we are in 1974 and Klaus is back on the drum stool.American multi-instrumentalist Ed Key along with his wife(vocals) and Apama
Chakravarti(harmonium,tambura and vocals) round out the lineup.They took this very seriously as they came up with a concept album here regarding the planet Earth. Some very experimental stuff here yet also some straight-up melodic sections on this one.A very interesting listen although i wouldn't say it "sounds" any different even with this supposed new technology.A cool album regardless.
Edited by Mellotron Storm - October 25 2011 at 22:06 |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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hellogoodbye
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Posted: October 27 2011 at 04:43 |
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 Maybe this 2010 CD by Connan Mockasin belongs here ... or not |
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Mellotron Storm
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Posted: October 27 2011 at 11:38 |
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Whoaa i thought that was Bamsen's girlfriend for a second.My mistake. That's freaky stuff Pierre. |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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harmonium.ro
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Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
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Posted: October 27 2011 at 12:24 |
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^
That looks like a Baselitz. There's an exhibition of his opened right now at a museum in Paris, I can't wait to see it.
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The Wrinkler wrote: