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Topic ClosedPost 70's Prog World Cup: Beardfish-The Mars Volta
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Poll Question: pick your favorite
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
45 [46.88%]
51 [53.13%]
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DanthraX View Drop Down
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Points: 241 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:21
Yeah I really respect morningrise's work because he's doing the effort all by himself, doing a great job and i'm having a blast in the tournament, but the average tiebreak it is a little strange. In this particular round the average rating per album would have been more fair because both bands have similar amount of albums with lots of ratings... Anyway, I love both bands so is ok for me
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 15:24
I would have voted for TMV but I forgot, so pretend that I did and I am the tie breaker against Breadfish.
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Morningrise View Drop Down
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Points: 2766 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 16:33
In relation to all the tie breaker system discussion:
 
It's so damn boring to discuss about this once again, but here we go...
 
It's the system I've been using since the beginning of the competition (June 4th) . Qualification rounds, and so on. When I explained it, nobody complained or suggested anything else. It wouldn't be right to change it at this moment, because if I did so, it wouldn't be fair for example for Arcturus, who lost to Death due to the tiebreaker on the qualification round, or GY!BE who lost to...well, you know LOL.
 
I don't think there's a perfectly suitable tiebreaker. To those who suggested average rating per album:
It wouldn't be fair for bands like Dream Theater or The Flower Kings, who get a lot of sh*tty ratings just because they have lots of haters who won't bother even to listen to their albums, and rate them 1 star just because.
I mean, you may or may not like The Flower Kings, but isn't it strange that NONE of their albums have at least a 4 star rating?
 
As frippism has stated before me, this is just a popularity competition. It would be great if the BEST band would win this, but to determine that would be impossible. Just imagine the upcoming Porcupine Tree- After Crying match. I'm pretty sure Porcupine Tree will destroy After Crying, and many of the votes they will get will come from people who may not have heard a single track from the hungarian band. That's a reality.
 
 
Anyway, I'm starting to enjoy all the whinning. I'm hoping for more for the future.
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Any Colour You Like View Drop Down
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Points: 12294 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 16:46
Originally posted by Morningrise Morningrise wrote:

As frippism has stated before me, this is just a popularity competition. It would be great if the BEST band would win this, but to determine that would be impossible. Just imagine the upcoming Porcupine Tree- After Crying match. I'm pretty sure Porcupine Tree will destroy After Crying, and many of the votes they will get will come from people who may not have heard a single track from the hungarian band. That's a reality.

It is impossible to be completely objective, so relax. It's just a f**king poll.

And yes, PT will destroy After Crying, but that isn't due to the 'qualities' of either band. 
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Points: 2766 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 16:48
Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

Originally posted by Morningrise Morningrise wrote:

As frippism has stated before me, this is just a popularity competition. It would be great if the BEST band would win this, but to determine that would be impossible. Just imagine the upcoming Porcupine Tree- After Crying match. I'm pretty sure Porcupine Tree will destroy After Crying, and many of the votes they will get will come from people who may not have heard a single track from the hungarian band. That's a reality.

It is impossible to be completely objective, so relax. It's just a f**king poll.

And yes, PT will destroy After Crying, but that isn't due to the 'qualities' of either band. 
 
That's basically what I tried to say.
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 16:55
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

lol at everyone taking this seriously
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 17:05
owned

TMV for the win
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Logan View Drop Down
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Points: 35886 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 19:49
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

lol at everyone taking this seriously


LOL at anyone who assumes that everyone is taking this seriously. Clown
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 19:51
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

lol at everyone taking this seriously


LOL at anyone who assumes that everyone is taking this seriously. Clown


Not everyone, but definitely some are.
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Points: 35886 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 20:31
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

lol at everyone taking this seriously


LOL at anyone who assumes that everyone is taking this seriously. Clown


Not everyone, but definitely some are.


Of course some are. Well then, I'll join with you the laughing out loud at some people who are taking this seriously, though I feel more a sense of pity towards them.

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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 20:45
Originally posted by Morningrise Morningrise wrote:

It wouldn't be fair for bands like Dream Theater or The Flower Kings, who get a lot of sh*tty ratings just because they have lots of haters who won't bother even to listen to their albums, and rate them 1 star just because.
I mean, you may or may not like The Flower Kings, but isn't it strange that NONE of their albums have at least a 4 star rating?
 


Maybe they are just bad?
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2011 at 20:48
Not wanting to be an ass and such but... Dream Theater gets as much or more 5* ratings than the 1* ratings. 
You had like 20 ratings before the official artwork was even released.
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Points: 10964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2011 at 04:25
I'm just getting a kick out of this tournament and all the discussion it's creating.
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Points: 617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2011 at 07:02
Originally posted by Morningrise Morningrise wrote:

I don't think there's a perfectly suitable tiebreaker. To those who suggested average rating per album:
It wouldn't be fair for bands like Dream Theater or The Flower Kings, who get a lot of sh*tty ratings just because they have lots of haters who won't bother even to listen to their albums, and rate them 1 star just because.
I mean, you may or may not like The Flower Kings, but isn't it strange that NONE of their albums have at least a 4 star rating?
How about just tossing a coin?

I mean, if none of the statistical ways to come up with a tie breaker are really fair, how about just leaving it all down to lady luck? Wink
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2011 at 07:25
^ he kinda needs to show the coin toss though :) to see he isn't choosing by personal preference!
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Points: 4214 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2011 at 07:36
Originally posted by Morningrise Morningrise wrote:

To calculate, for example, Beardfish's average:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2808

Fran En Plats Du Ej Kan Se: 58 ratings
+
The Sane Day: 87 ratings
+
Sleeping In Traffic 1: 187 ratings
+
Sleeping In Traffic 2: 288 ratings
+
Destined Solitaire: 191 ratings
+
Mammoth: 222 ratings
=

1033 (this total divided by the numer of studio albums, in this case
6, gives us an average of 172.17)

So, in this case it´s totally unfair. Simple number of ratings is less important than average rating value (or even query weighted ratings), isn´t it?
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Points: 14122 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2011 at 07:38
Guys, it's in the rights of who starts the poll deciding the criteria. If you don't like it just stay away or start your own.
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2011 at 07:44
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Guys, it's in the rights of who starts the poll deciding the criteria. If you don't like it just stay away or start your own.


Myes, this forum definitely misses 10-15 different people starting their own endless, subdivized tournaments.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2011 at 05:44
Beardfish.

Because I like them more. Honest.
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2011 at 06:00
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

 

But it is a competition. It really shouldn't be. The most innovative and consistent band in 20 years verses a good retro prog band. The Mars Volta should leave Beardfish in the dust. But no - once again, the PA hoards pile in in droves to vote, when they clearly don't listen to both bands, an important criteria if we're supposed to be judging between the two.

Don't just vote for the band you've heard of. If you can only say you listen to one of the two bands, don't vote. You're the reason that this competition is already decided.






Damn that pesky and meddlesome freewill  varmint rearing his ugly head once more. Both Beardfish and The Mars Volta are popular and well known bands on the site. Why do you presume that people who order chicken have never tasted beef or even seen a cow? Those of you with reasonably good memories will remember I'm sure Micky's First Law of Bowel Motion - don't confuse what you like with what's good

I would strongly suggest you clamber down from the moral high ground before you suffer a nose bleed (on your return) Evil Smile


Edited by ExittheLemming - October 17 2011 at 06:01
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