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Knobby 
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Joined: May 31 2013
Location: Ontario
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 Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:28 |
60s were dire, 70's moreso.
No one recognized Yours Truely as a Pwog Masterman.
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presdoug
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Posted: October 13 2011 at 16:56 |
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people or groups or whatever could be just as "me me me" and greedy in the 60s as they were in the 70s
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: October 13 2011 at 16:29 |
 colorofmoney91 wrote:
The '70s sound awesome. |
The 60's were better and more adventurous and you still had Dr. Martin Luther King Jr to march with and have something incommon with ... the 70's kinda went south in the California area with the "coolness" of the "greed is good" generation that thought that movie was so cool. The movie was just showing how screwed up things are, and in the end, it gets everyone appreciating the opposite.
It's sooooo advertising! ... It's sooooo Hollywood! ... and everyone thinks it's cool because everyone is afraid to not be "with it" with all their friends and (heaven forbid!!!!!) the very media that is advertising their own product!
Think about it ... the day that both Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones got 100 million each, was the day that almost all of these bands "died" and the money spent on releasing anyone else's work stopped. The UA /WEA distribution conglomerate, overnight, dropped more than 400 bands from their lists ... it became strictly a top tenm society ... and we allowed it to happen!
By the mid 70's, people were already "institutionalized" (my word for it) and they were caught up in the "scene" ... and when "Saturday Night Fever" came around, you knew you were hooked and another music scene took over ... it wasn't even about the hit anymore, because the movie and the advertising made sure it was sold and made big money ... so everyone would think it was magnificent and really good. Today, the example is Harry Potter and some other Hollywood glitz or some overhyped tv thing or two.
And the one that got me to stop and grow up ... faster than anything ... was one man saying ... "let'em get stoned and I will win all the elections!" ... and if that is not a wake up call as to how screwed up and asleep we had become, I don't know what is!
How about this one ... when I was at UCSB, the "in-thing" was (1) coke) and (2) screw a butt, and it did not matter whose it was! (3) Be bisexual or at least experienced the other side. And it was considered all fun! And I know a lot of folks that did not enjoy it and got damaged from it ... but ... nooooo ... they stuck with their social grouping and doing ... and I'm not sure you can have enough aesthetics to go appreciate "progressive" music ... since the main thrust of the first "progressive" albums were all quite "anti-social" moroseness and lack of understanding and knowledge! ... but that means you will have to listen to the lyrics/poetry a little more?
I didn't dislike the 70's ... but I can tell you that I got seriously grounded into the "arts" then, and I think that in the end, I was rejecting the commercialism of it all and the blatant corruption surrounding that commercialist and what some of those people represented. Thus you can tell why I do not speak about so many famous names and bands inthose days ... !!! they were the representatives of that greed and time and its ugliest and seedy'est part!
Edited by moshkito - October 14 2011 at 19:13
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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TODDLER
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Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: October 13 2011 at 14:21 |
Some of my childhood friends were kept out of public schools by the 3rd generation Watchtower Society. Later in life they escaped with nothing but the clothes on their back. As I recall 5 of my teenage friends were institutionalized in a psychiatric hospital shortly after the Satan cult killing of a young man who used to tutor us in school. During this time one of the Watchtower leaders was circulating the act of prostitution with young teenage girls in our town....as also described by Teal Scott on the youtube vid.How could witchcraft, Satan worship, and Watchtower Society all gather seperately in the same town? Some of my friends have recovered from cult abuse and over the years I have conversed with them. They basically give off a vibe like Teal Scott when discussing their past with me. I think it is wonderful that they were able to move on in life.
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Points: 7028
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Posted: October 06 2011 at 21:33 |
jammun wrote:
Pot haze, hiking through the back woods of Wyoming. Yellowstone. The Tetons. Those were great times, camped out along the Snake River listening to Mahavishnu. I don't know how I made it through those times in one piece. Maybe I didn't. |
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 06 2011 at 21:00 |
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^ I think in ways they were better than the 60s, though I'm too young to remember anything much before '69
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colorofmoney91
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 16 2008
Location: Biosphere
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Points: 22774
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Posted: October 06 2011 at 20:19 |
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The '70s sound awesome.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 17497
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Posted: October 06 2011 at 13:57 |
TODDLER wrote:
moshkito wrote:
...
But there is another bit in the film that says more about you and I and all of us, than anything else ... and it is the bit that concerns this whole thing more than anything else in this discussion ... the curiosity factor ... and it is very visible in one famous shot where the camera is looking into the bedroom, and we can only see the foot of the bed, and everyone ... EVERYONE ... in the theater leaned their heads to the right to try and look/see beyond the door frame ... in the end, we are a conditioned bunch of folks think/feel that everything there is to know and do is always around the corner, or somewhere else ... and the only TRUTH that magic and spirit and soul has ever had is that it is not about the outside, it is about the inside and how you relate to it. You don't have to "see it" ... to know ... and this was the falacy of the "mysticism" in those days, in the new age days, and today. That is not to say that any of those arts are not valid ... of course they are, but in the wrong hands they are deadly and very dangerous, and not a game, or something that most people should get involved in!
... |
I really enjoyed this post. Thanks for your insight |
This visual about the film is important. And it also shows how "progressive" Roman was in regards to film like many of his contemporaries. If you can find it, there is a film about cinematographers that is called "Visions of Light", and you will appreciate a lot of stuff in there, specially the WHEN for much of it, which is on par with the musical experiments at the time. Roman, in his "Tess" film also did something that is downright difficult and very harsh, but it's almost like it's real, but it would be something that he would know from the Concentration Camps or the Sewers in the war ... and it was the rape scene, when he used the handheld camera right on Natasha's face, body and person ... and the shooting of it, made the scene more horrific and even more important for the whole story and film.
In the end, it became almost single handedly about the "individuality" of the expression ... which a commercial style can not do and will not allow, in general ... and the 60's and early 70's were an artistic fight for expression and being seen ... and guess what is happening today all over again ... it keeps getting more and more commercial, right down to the classifications in order for most folks in this board to find ... the same thing they already are listening to!
To me, a Gaspar Noe, today, is almost the same as a Polanski then, or any other artist, like KC's album ITCOTCK, because it is a searing attack and comment on the time and place and people ... and how screwed up it all was ... and how much hope we had of making a change. In the end, we were not able to make a change, but we left behind an artistic legacy, and I think this is the importance of that time and place, and ALL of its art, regardless of which country it came from. And this is the part that is very difficult to discuss at PA, except in this thread where most folks have been above and beyond the call of duty and posted some very far out and wonderful mementos.
Look for some articles and books on the theater 1950's and 1960's. And notice the attempts, some very harsh, to break convention and find out what this is all about ... even that loud scream ... STELLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAA ... is important ... in this thread ... and then compare it to the first albums by KC, Yes, ELP and many of those bands ... and you will notice that very quickly these bands quit on their "idealism" and "aesthetics", which is the reason why I say that not all of it is as good as most people think, when compared to other works out there and artists that did a whole lot more ... in the end, Jean Luc Godard is the most progressive of all of these artists, with one exception ... many of us can't stand it and think it's pretentious, when in the end, he is just making fun of us for having turned our heads to find out what was on the other side of the door. And challenging our intelligence quota when listening and watching things, because too many of us immediately "default" to a standard socialized comment and idea.
It's conditioning. And if one does not break the conditioning along the way, sooner or later you're not going to enjoy that art or music or book or movie ... ohhh yeah ... get married get a job and have a kid and a half! Become just another number in the Social Studies class!
Edited by moshkito - October 06 2011 at 14:08
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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TODDLER
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Points: 3126
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Posted: October 04 2011 at 07:52 |
Steve Laury I knew at age 16 and I was amazed by his talent. He was from Vineland N.J. and couldn't get a break in the music business on the east coast so he left for the west coast and formed Fattburger. No doubt he is my favorite guitarist.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17068
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Posted: October 03 2011 at 04:25 |
cstack3 wrote:
For any readers who want to see how the USA was interested in Satanism back in the 1960's, please watch this Alfred Hitchcock TV show, "The Sign of Satan"....this is some scary stuff! Notice how they refer to the things Toddler talks about (European origins, US black masses etc.). I watched this as a kid, and at age 56, it still scares the bejeebers out of me! Toddler, I doubt if you'll find it interesting based on your history, you may want to take a pass.
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Hmmmm...the hour groweth late. Should I watch this now, or later "today"? Decisions, decisions...  |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17497
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Posted: September 25 2011 at 12:14 |
Kashmir75 wrote:
I wasn't born yet but the impression I get is that music was not so cliquey back then. You had ELP, Sabbath, Tull, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Deep Purple playing at the same festivals. Hell, Tony Iommi was even in Jethro Tull for a brief time. I just get the idea people were more open about experimentation and creativity in music. These days it's all about factions and labels. ... |
I never thought of it as cliquey, although in Madison there used to be a nasty rift between the ROTC and the rest of the folks that liked the new music. It was almost like someone at ROTC could not like Jimi, or Janis ... it was the stupidest thing and the most un-educated thing I ever saw in my life. It was way too separatist for my tastes, but then, most black music in America, was quite cliquey until Michael Jackson came along and you saw a larger mix than anyone else. To me, this is Michael's most important legacy of all. Experimentation was easier in Europe than America, what with their music history of hundreds of years. America spent its history killing the culture that was here, and then hide the black culture and this preventeda lot of things from making it to the front. Europe, at least, had some appreciation for the musicianship, which is something that America still lacks. For all intents and purposes Charlie Daniels is still a better fiddler than most wahoos out there playing the violin to some piece of classical music. Or Doug Kershaw. I di think that a lot more of this age, time and place, will be much more appreciated long after we are gone. Even the folks in this board are afraid to discuss those social elements that helped drive the music. And I think that too many of the long cuts in the early days of the Fillmore and such, are all forgotten because people were too damn stoned ... and the record companies never released these things and killed them. Even the Grateful Dead, the masters of the long cut that used to play all night long, is not remembered for that "tripping" any more ... it's more remembered for its hippy scene ... which brings down the music itself, and the members left are not musically adventurous a whole lot. Maybe Mickey, but even then, you rarely hear that on the GD albums! America, is really 4 or 5 countries in one, and therein lies the problem, otherwise the New York artistic scene would be remembered much better than it is, or the SF scene or the LA scene, or the New Orleans scene. Instead you get these cliques of music, like R&this and that, and the "traditional" stuff that is found in many areas. As a sad example, of the whole thing, Return to Forever and Zappa plays Zappa played in Eugene, OR, not Portland, OR which is a much bigger place, but has always been very "traditional" and old music minded in order to even appreciate the great music both those bands were playing ... but the Rose Garden will not spare you Rob Zombie or Brittany Spears. It's notcliquey ... it's just musically uneducated. We had the same issue at KTYD with Guy Guden and his Space Pirate Radio show ... but it will be a cold day in hell that many of those folks in there will actually appreciate the work that was done. And there was one of the other DJ's that interrupted Guy one time while playing Golden Earring, and said that it wasn't rock'n'roll, to which Guy stopped the record and then wound it back up and said ... "who cares? It's great music!" ... and to this day, something like that is still an issue! By the way, the name of the song was "Are You Receiving Me?" in case it matters to you some. It's about the music, not the "scene" or the "style" and this is the popularity contest that many folks can not get away from in this country and eventually will stop listening to it. Met one old friend from school and all he could think of was ... we were such kids then ... and the music did not mean anything! I don't see any difference, even today. I look at us here on this board as the difference makers, although I am not sure that most of them think of themselves likewise.
Edited by moshkito - September 25 2011 at 12:19
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1029
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Posted: September 24 2011 at 23:09 |
I wasn't born yet but the impression I get is that music was not so cliquey back then. You had ELP, Sabbath, Tull, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Deep Purple playing at the same festivals. Hell, Tony Iommi was even in Jethro Tull for a brief time. I just get the idea people were more open about experimentation and creativity in music. These days it's all about factions and labels.
One advantage about growing up now is that it is easier to access the music you want to listen to. But I would have liked to grow up in the late sixties or early seventies, in my mind the peak of rock music.
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 17:50 |
moshkito wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
... landing heads or tails and determinating your destiny. What can you possibly do about that when you are a child?
...
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It is very tough indeed. But I do know that the signals and hints are always there and in the end, the chance is there, but it is harder in some places than others. For example, in America you have the chance to make a decent living and even own a house during your life, but in Brazil where we lived, unless you were this or that, you would be a bum all your life and there is no God that will ever save you! And the chances to learn and find out more? ... very slim and it's really hard to discuss and talk about kharma/dharma in those situations.
TODDLER wrote:
...
However ....there is one particular aspect to that film that Roman Polanski got right. He was in a concentration camp as a child and somehow years later where ever it was specifically that he traveled in Europe he understood the characteristics of Satan cult members and witches. ...
|
Because the people that put him/family in the sewers in Poland were the equivalent of the cult members and the witches.
But there is another bit in the film that says more about you and I and all of us, than anything else ... and it is the bit that concerns this whole thing more than anything else in this discussion ... the curiosity factor ... and it is very visible in one famous shot where the camera is looking into the bedroom, and we can only see the foot of the bed, and everyone ... EVERYONE ... in the theater leaned their heads to the right to try and look/see beyond the door frame ... in the end, we are a conditioned bunch of folks think/feel that everything there is to know and do is always around the corner, or somewhere else ... and the only TRUTH that magic and spirit and soul has ever had is that it is not about the outside, it is about the inside and how you relate to it. You don't have to "see it" ... to know ... and this was the falacy of the "mysticism" in those days, in the new age days, and today. That is not to say that any of those arts are not valid ... of course they are, but in the wrong hands they are deadly and very dangerous, and not a game, or something that most people should get involved in!
And only those that are not capable of seeing within themselves will always be looking and driven by an idea, or something they see ... and it is no different wether it is music, a political idea or whatever ... what you don't know usually drives your ability to learn ... and if it is focused on the outside, you can not learn unless you have the inate ability to see inside and find the parallel within yourself.
The 60's also used the internal thing quite a bit, and the Beatles/Eastern thing was more about taking it further, but in the end, too many people were afraid ... and even then, there were folks saying that Transcendental Meditation was evil ... and that was a horrible lack of understanding about what it was in the first place.
Again, I was lucky ... I was from a house with 40k books of literature, so it was a bit easier to find what was better and what was not so good ... and which looked like stories and which were NOT stories ... and it's the same thing with this music ... all the main/important acts were not just a song ... and this is the perspective that this board lacks in the appreciation of what we wish to call "progressive music" that was so valuable in those days, and still lives today with different t-shirts and shorts! |
I really enjoyed this post. Thanks for your insight
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TODDLER
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 17:36 |
I also recall being on the road in the music business from 76 or 77' on....and even though you could perform in original prog bands or cover prog bands to packed to the max venues ...I mean were talking about entering the stage to play "Watcher of the Skies" or "Perpetual Change" to a huge audience who was there to see IF you could play it...I was alone....because no one knew who David Bedford was and I'd end up in the Holiday Inn listening to his music. People who were into YES and GENESIS would give me the deer in the headlight look. Who is David Bedford? Who is Popol Vuh? I was again in the wrong place. I still wonder just how popular those artists were on European shores amongst fans of progressive and musicians.
Edited by TODDLER - September 21 2011 at 17:37
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TODDLER
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 17:21 |
Vineland is the largest city in New Jersey. Back in the 60's the wooded areas and farmland was vast. In the 30's many Italian people migrated there from the north of Italy and not so much the south. They were already farmers in Italy and they decided to settle in Vineland during the great depression to continue farming. They used to enjoy jazz music, Classical music and they often sang Italian songs. During the hippie movement in Vineland this certain group of what would be defined as rednecks infested the place. Their mission was to beat up hippies which the irony of that began in the mid 70's when they themselves began to grow long hair and beards. They tried to emulate the people of the south and not doing a very good job at it....for they took on the nasty role of the redneck and NOT the hospitable one.
"A Place In The Sun" was opened in the early 70's by the drummer for the "Four Seasons". The James Gang is the only band I recall performing there ...however there were acts from the 60's every weekend. The venue was shut down after a few years of functioning. Italian farmers and rednecks in the social environment ignored the Satan cult killings and simply pretended for most of their lives not discussing it and living in denial. Steve Laury was a great guitarist who performed in Vineland and jammed with when I was 16. He left for the west coast and formed the west coast fusion band Fattburger. They released several cd's and then Steve went solo and then vanishing from the music business. I still speak to him by phone and it's very sad that he is not active. He is one of the greatest jazz guitarists in the world. Some of his concert footage can be viewed on youtube....but Steve says he had nothing to do with it and has nothing to do with the music business at all. Todd Rundgren used to drive down from Philadelphia when he worked with Woody's Truckstop. He used to visit Steve's house and they would hang out on the weekends. Steve wanted to help me, but...I was just too young and being 6 years older he had to move on with his career.
Vineland was a far cry from even arriving close to a city like Chicago, Philadelphia or N.Y.....with all it's lack of culture and it's back in the woods mentality. on the front it was all about getting the LED out, beating up wives and kids when they interrupted the Super Bowl, and just being a south Jersey yee-ha.  When I was 15 ...I had a deep interest in the lyricism of Pete Sinfield. Clearly Vineland was not the place to be. To share a common interest such as that in Vineland during the year of 1971...you would have better luck conversing with the Satan cults ...which was dangerous and so I kept to myself. The place was evil on the fore-front and the underground. A hick town on the surface and a Satan worship gallery underneath.
Edited by TODDLER - October 03 2011 at 08:15
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cstack3
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 16:52 |
moshkito wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Old cult, young cult,...it was a bit like the Dark Shadows series to me. I can tell you ..I wasn't fond of it.
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Man, that is some f'ed up sh*t you bring up! I'm sure we had cult stuff going on in the Chicago area, but I never had any exposure like you are talking about!
Sorry you were so traumatized, the Chicago suburbs were mostly safe....kids that went to kindergarten together are still friends, we got high & formed bands together, some of us married childhood sweethearts, but we never had that type of victimization! |
Chicago was too tied up and busy with a different Daley ... but it still had a lot of nice things come by ... after all I did see Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin on the same day that I saw Richard Kiley do Man of La Mancha down the street, and spent the rest of the day looking at that lovely bunch of art at the Chicago Art Institute!
California had its thing too, and Santa Barbara was not immune to it, but it simply was not what I was into and being so literary and education minded, meant that for a lot of situations, it was just another form of fanaticism for my way of thinking.
And again, my "mysticism" is 100% centered on the arts of music, writing and painting and does not involve any form of ritual or church to go to. It's actually quite independent, too ... |
Toddler & Moshkito, thanks for your insights! There were rumors of Satanist cults hereabouts, but I think the Chicagoland community, which is quite conservative, kept them pretty far underground. Of course, we had more than our share of pedophile Catholic priests....
For any readers who want to see how the USA was interested in Satanism back in the 1960's, please watch this Alfred Hitchcock TV show, "The Sign of Satan"....this is some scary stuff! Notice how they refer to the things Toddler talks about (European origins, US black masses etc.). I watched this as a kid, and at age 56, it still scares the bejeebers out of me! Toddler, I doubt if you'll find it interesting based on your history, you may want to take a pass.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17497
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 16:49 |
TODDLER wrote:
... landing heads or tails and determinating your destiny. What can you possibly do about that when you are a child?
...
|
It is very tough indeed. But I do know that the signals and hints are always there and in the end, the chance is there, but it is harder in some places than others. For example, in America you have the chance to make a decent living and even own a house during your life, but in Brazil where we lived, unless you were this or that, you would be a bum all your life and there is no God that will ever save you! And the chances to learn and find out more? ... very slim and it's really hard to discuss and talk about kharma/dharma in those situations.
TODDLER wrote:
...
However ....there is one particular aspect to that film that Roman Polanski got right. He was in a concentration camp as a child and somehow years later where ever it was specifically that he traveled in Europe he understood the characteristics of Satan cult members and witches. ...
|
Because the people that put him/family in the sewers in Poland were the equivalent of the cult members and the witches.
But there is another bit in the film that says more about you and I and all of us, than anything else ... and it is the bit that concerns this whole thing more than anything else in this discussion ... the curiosity factor ... and it is very visible in one famous shot where the camera is looking into the bedroom, and we can only see the foot of the bed, and everyone ... EVERYONE ... in the theater leaned their heads to the right to try and look/see beyond the door frame ... in the end, we are a conditioned bunch of folks think/feel that everything there is to know and do is always around the corner, or somewhere else ... and the only TRUTH that magic and spirit and soul has ever had is that it is not about the outside, it is about the inside and how you relate to it. You don't have to "see it" ... to know ... and this was the falacy of the "mysticism" in those days, in the new age days, and today. That is not to say that any of those arts are not valid ... of course they are, but in the wrong hands they are deadly and very dangerous, and not a game, or something that most people should get involved in!
And only those that are not capable of seeing within themselves will always be looking and driven by an idea, or something they see ... and it is no different wether it is music, a political idea or whatever ... what you don't know usually drives your ability to learn ... and if it is focused on the outside, you can not learn unless you have the inate ability to see inside and find the parallel within yourself.
The 60's also used the internal thing quite a bit, and the Beatles/Eastern thing was more about taking it further, but in the end, too many people were afraid ... and even then, there were folks saying that Transcendental Meditation was evil ... and that was a horrible lack of understanding about what it was in the first place.
Again, I was lucky ... I was from a house with 40k books of literature, so it was a bit easier to find what was better and what was not so good ... and which looked like stories and which were NOT stories ... and it's the same thing with this music ... all the main/important acts were not just a song ... and this is the perspective that this board lacks in the appreciation of what we wish to call "progressive music" that was so valuable in those days, and still lives today with different t-shirts and shorts!
Edited by moshkito - September 21 2011 at 16:53
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17497
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 16:34 |
cstack3 wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Old cult, young cult,...it was a bit like the Dark Shadows series to me. I can tell you ..I wasn't fond of it.
|
Man, that is some f'ed up sh*t you bring up! I'm sure we had cult stuff going on in the Chicago area, but I never had any exposure like you are talking about!
Sorry you were so traumatized, the Chicago suburbs were mostly safe....kids that went to kindergarten together are still friends, we got high & formed bands together, some of us married childhood sweethearts, but we never had that type of victimization! |
Chicago was too tied up and busy with a different Daley ... but it still had a lot of nice things come by ... after all I did see Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin on the same day that I saw Richard Kiley do Man of La Mancha down the street, and spent the rest of the day looking at that lovely bunch of art at the Chicago Art Institute!
California had its thing too, and Santa Barbara was not immune to it, but it simply was not what I was into and being so literary and education minded, meant that for a lot of situations, it was just another form of fanaticism for my way of thinking.
And again, my "mysticism" is 100% centered on the arts of music, writing and painting and does not involve any form of ritual or church to go to. It's actually quite independent, too ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 08:53 |
cstack3 wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Old cult, young cult,...it was a bit like the Dark Shadows series to me. I can tell you ..I wasn't fond of it.
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Man, that is some f'ed up sh*t you bring up! I'm sure we had cult stuff going on in the Chicago area, but I never had any exposure like you are talking about!
Sorry you were so traumatized, the Chicago suburbs were mostly safe....kids that went to kindergarten together are still friends, we got high & formed bands together, some of us married childhood sweethearts, but we never had that type of victimization! |
That's because it's a special set of circumstances. I have always enjoyed science fiction novels and dark mysterious music, but so do many others and it doesn't mean we all cross the line over into a religion that worships Satan. Coming from a town like this..I have been pegged to be just that. That is how blind the average person is. The average person doesn't seem to know how to spot an individual who is into witchcraft or Satan so they can protect their children from them. They are not very good at telling the difference between a person who was traumatized from it and a person who indulged in it. Meanwhile you're in a pathetic situation where it feels like some smuck came along and threw a handful of quarters into the air ...landing heads or tails and determinating your destiny. What can you possibly do about that when you are a child?
I don't know if you have ever seen Rosemary's Baby? It's a ridiculous story to me and in so many ways I find it just completely stupied and corny. However ....there is one particular aspect to that film that Roman Polanski got right. He was in a concentration camp as a child and somehow years later where ever it was specifically that he traveled in Europe he understood the characteristics of Satan cult members and witches. The whole concept of Ruth Gordon coming across as hospitable and nosey is exacting. Many of the elderly folks from the Satan worshippers sect in my hometown did not dress in black or look mysterious in any fashion whatsoever. They came as your friends...just as they came to Rosemary in the movie. There was no reason to suspect anything wrong about them. It was the youth in the early 70's which took on that image to flaunt evil which later developed into a fad along with "Heavy Metal" music. Some parents are aware of the the goth image and take precautions with their children. I look for something else.
Folks in my hometown who belonged to the sect were sweet as pie and would attempt to replace the position of your parents by giving you your freedom or the material things you desired as a teen which your parents did not give you those things because they felt it was not in your best interest. Then you were drawn in and possibly a year later they might decide to get rid of you through a sacrifice or just throwing you off a balcony to die. These people were born to the sect and the older generations of their family tree derived originally from the shores of Europe where they had eventually migrated to America and stayed undercover posing in the community. Just as they did centuries ago prior to the Salem witch trials. There is nothing farce about it. In the "Satanic Panic" era people would read the newspapers. In those newspapers were stories about cults posing in Daycare centers, Churches, etc and the majority of society thought it was just good press. I disagree because history says otherwise. History tells us that it has always been done this way for centuries and I base my dis-belief in the public's belief due to my experience and research. Society thought it was farce because of all the punks in Satan cults who were getting busted for sacrificing a member in their cult or even killing an infant. They blamed it on the "Heavy Metal" music and the fad for the youth through the media.
The reason why many kids that perform a tragic act like this commit suicide behind bars is the from the pressure of the FBI. The FBI must investigate further to see if it's just a fringe group in the woods strung out on dope and thinking sadistic acts are a method of feeling special or if the kids were brainwashed by an elderly sect....like the kids in my hometown. You couldn't make it on the outside if you turned people in and were an x-mob member unless the witness protection program came into the picture as it did with Henry Hill ....which I don't know his entire story....but anyway....if you were a kid and had been brainwashed by a sect like this ....how would you make it on the outside if you were to turn important members in? If you turn one person in...then you've got to deal with the next one in line and so forth. So they will simply put an end to their life in jail rather than making the choice of being released in 10 years and being hunted down. Some kids who are members of a sect ..yet have nothing to do with a murder are released after so much time goes by and people forget. But not the sect. They may very well go after the person later in life just to keep a sacred bond in the sect. Just to clean it all up and be rid of the dirty past. Obviously there are and were Satan cults formed by the local punks who are on their personal mission and have zero to do with higher ranks. Not my experience at all because this was in 1971 before that pattern existed. Yet that is what precisely confuses society into believing there is nothing more than that.
Edited by TODDLER - September 21 2011 at 09:08
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7264
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Posted: September 21 2011 at 00:32 |
TODDLER wrote:
Old cult, young cult,...it was a bit like the Dark Shadows series to me. I can tell you ..I wasn't fond of it.
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Man, that is some f'ed up sh*t you bring up! I'm sure we had cult stuff going on in the Chicago area, but I never had any exposure like you are talking about!
Sorry you were so traumatized, the Chicago suburbs were mostly safe....kids that went to kindergarten together are still friends, we got high & formed bands together, some of us married childhood sweethearts, but we never had that type of victimization!
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