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oliverstoned 
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 Posted: September 14 2011 at 06:21 |
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Dean
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 07:07 |
I would have preferred your own words since that would tell me how much you actually understood from that white paper, however, the important part is this:
"Even with conventional CD sources, the addition of a SuperTweeter reduces phase error and improves transient performance significantly below 20kHz. This leads to increased tonal accuracy at all frequencies, as the harmonics of instruments are not distorted in time."
...so it is not the ultrasonic frequencies that are above the threshold of human hearing that are affecting the part of the audio spectrum that we can hear, but it is the effect of the supertweeter on those frequencies within that band. The CD explanation proves this incontrovertibly - there are no frequencies above 22.05kHz present on a CD so those frequencies cannot be the cause.
(Even vinyl removes ultra high frequencies during the mastering stage of production - as the article says 40% of the energy in many of these instruments is ultrasonic - that affects the headroom of the recording and limits the dynamic range of the audible portion of the spectrum. The same is true of subsonics - on vinyl these are also removed make the grooves narrower, allowing more music to fit on one side of a platter.)
Edited by Dean - September 14 2011 at 07:08
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oliverstoned
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 07:10 |
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So you've learn something
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Dean
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 07:35 |
 oliverstoned wrote:
So you've learn something |
Not in the slightest - I mentioned this several years back in one of the many CD vs Vinyl debates we've had.
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The T
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 09:34 |
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Oliver, all of your links are for manufacturer's papers and supposedly "scientific" explanations. Have you found any by an impartial third-party with no interest whatsoever in pushing a device/tweak on customers?
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 11:03 |
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Everyone in this thread is insane.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Dean
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 11:07 |
A well chosen interruption from our "state the blindingly bleeding obvious" correspondent. 
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Catcher10
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 12:14 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Everyone in this thread is insane. |
P.A.
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Catcher10
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 12:24 |
The T wrote:
Oliver, all of your links are for manufacturer's papers and supposedly "scientific" explanations. Have you found any by an impartial third-party with no interest whatsoever in pushing a device/tweak on customers? |
I believe I mentioned when I first joined this thread, (about 6 years ago  )........I asked Oliver if he was a hifi/audiophile equipment seller because all his writing seemed to quote or make reference to mfg spec sheets, which of course are just glorified sales pitches in a lot of cases.
I guess if you read the story of Jonah enough you would eventually believe someone can live in the belly of a whale for 3 days....
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TheGazzardian
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 10:31 |
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Everyone talks about the fall of the CD and the rise of vinyl and digital, and I think in general the market is perceived as going that way...there've been a few releases this year that have been Digital or Vinyl as the only options. The Dear Hunters The Colour Spectrum is a great example. Yet, they are now releasing a CD box-set of it because of fan demand - so perhaps those who are monitoring the market are underestimating peoples loyalty to the CD format. I think it's an interesting sign, anyways, to say the least.
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Dean
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 10:34 |
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^ with the Dear Hunter's Color Spectrum I think the single CD only served as a taster of the full suite and as such created its own demand.
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Catcher10
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 12:26 |
I don't believe there is a "rise" in vinyl at all.....I think there is more of a resurrgence in vinyl interest in the past 3-5 yrs. There are some small vinyl press plants which are very, very busy especially in NY and they will say their order files are over 6 months long. But remember most of this is due to DJs and club music and independent artists who will release maybe 1,000 copies because they cannot afford to release 5,000 copies.
The rise might be in who is actually buying vinyl, which is the younger crowd, 25-35 yr olds..that for sure has grown a lot......but I would suspect they are buying twice as much CD/Digital than vinyl.
In the stores I go to, almost 80% of the younger buyer is looking at used vinyl in the jazz, R&B, 50/60's oldies sections and even country. I have yet to see anyone buy a new release on vinyl by Lady Gaga, which I see everywhere.
All the store owners are telling me their vinyl sales have increased quite a bit.....but also so have their used CD sales....Part of that could be the sign of economic times.
Regardless, I don't think the CD is going anywhere and I certainly don't think vinyl will become king again.....I'm pretty happy with the way things are right now. Especially with what is coming out on 180-200 gram reissues and new issues, for example Dream Theater-ADToE.....Also the colored vinyl stuff is pretty cool, I am trying to buy Riverside's Second Life Syndrome which is a black/brown marble vinyl on 180gram..pretty cool.
its all good!
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 17:49 |
I'm just trying to help, Dean.
TheGazzardian wrote:
Everyone talks about the fall of the CD and the rise of vinyl and digital, and I think in general the market is perceived as going that way...there've been a few releases this year that have been Digital or Vinyl as the only options. The Dear Hunters The Colour Spectrum is a great example. Yet, they are now releasing a CD box-set of it because of fan demand - so perhaps those who are monitoring the market are underestimating peoples loyalty to the CD format. I think it's an interesting sign, anyways, to say the least. |
Nope, the CD is only one song from each of the EPs. However, the vinyl box comes with a digital download, so it's not really relevant for the idea of the "rise of vinyl" because the people who bought it don't necessarily have any means to play vinyl. I would not object to buying a vinyl record if it had a digital download (although I would never buy The Color Spectrum even if I did like TDH because it's incredibly overpriced for the amount of music you get), but I will never own a turntable. You can release it vinyl only if you want, noise hipsters, but I can live without it.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Dean
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 18:06 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
I'm just trying to help, Dean.
TheGazzardian wrote:
Everyone talks about the fall of the CD and the rise of vinyl and digital, and I think in general the market is perceived as going that way...there've been a few releases this year that have been Digital or Vinyl as the only options. The Dear Hunters The Colour Spectrum is a great example. Yet, they are now releasing a CD box-set of it because of fan demand - so perhaps those who are monitoring the market are underestimating peoples loyalty to the CD format. I think it's an interesting sign, anyways, to say the least. |
Nope, the CD is only one song from each of the EPs. However, the vinyl box comes with a digital download, so it's not really relevant for the idea of the "rise of vinyl" because the people who bought it don't necessarily have any means to play vinyl.
I would not object to buying a vinyl record if it had a digital download (although I would never buy The Color Spectrum even if I did like TDH because it's incredibly overpriced for the amount of music you get), but I will never own a turntable. You can release it vinyl only if you want, noise hipsters, but I can live without it.
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A-hem... The Dear Hunter will be releasing" Color Spectrum: the Complete Collection" on CD in November - 3 CDs + 1 DVD. 
Edited by Dean - September 15 2011 at 18:07
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The T
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 19:22 |
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When I was a child I had tons of classical music vinyls. I'm sad I don't have them anymore because many of them were really legendary recordings. On the other hand, I have replaced most fo them with cds. And I wouldn't want to deal with scratches and that ridiculous noise thatthe needle does as it goes over the vinyl. And the packagig occupied so much more space. Yes, I'm happy cds replaced vinyls. And this is where I stop.
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 19:43 |
Aw Dean, I spent 25 seconds googling it and everything :( And seriously, 3 CDs? It could easily fit on 2.
The T wrote:
When I was a child I had tons of classical music vinyls. I'm sad I don't have them anymore because many of them were really legendary recordings. On the other hand, I have replaced most fo them with cds. And I wouldn't want to deal with scratches and that ridiculous noise thatthe needle does as it goes over the vinyl. And the packagig occupied so much more space. Yes, I'm happy cds replaced vinyls. And this is where I stop. |
I really can't stand classical recordings from before around 1960. I don't care how excellent the playing is, the distortion from the old microphones makes it unlistenable.
Edited by Henry Plainview - September 15 2011 at 19:45
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Points: 37575
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 05:41 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Aw Dean, I spent 25 seconds googling it and everything :( And seriously, 3 CDs? It could easily fit on 2.
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[cynical]I think it's just a ploy to bump the price up to 30 bucks[/cynical] 
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ExittheLemming
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Joined: October 19 2007
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 08:18 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Aw Dean, I spent 25 seconds googling it and everything :( And seriously, 3 CDs? It could easily fit on 2.
The T wrote:
When I was a child I had tons of classical music vinyls. I'm sad I don't have them anymore because many of them were really legendary recordings. On the other hand, I have replaced most fo them with cds. And I wouldn't want to deal with scratches and that ridiculous noise thatthe needle does as it goes over the vinyl. And the packagig occupied so much more space. Yes, I'm happy cds replaced vinyls. And this is where I stop. |
I really can't stand classical recordings from before around 1960. I don't care how excellent the playing is, the distortion from the old microphones makes it unlistenable.
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It pains me to have to agree with misery guts but yes, I was in a record store this week and saw 'Leonard Bernstein conducts Rodeo by Aaron Copland' for a measly $5 (AUS) but yes, I put it back in the rack after seeing 195* on the cover (classical recordings from around this time just sound tinny and boxy to my ears)
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The T
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 10:35 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Aw Dean, I spent 25 seconds googling it and everything :( And seriously, 3 CDs? It could easily fit on 2.
The T wrote:
When I was a child I had tons of classical music vinyls. I'm sad I don't have them anymore because many of them were really legendary recordings. On the other hand, I have replaced most fo them with cds. And I wouldn't want to deal with scratches and that ridiculous noise thatthe needle does as it goes over the vinyl. And the packagig occupied so much more space. Yes, I'm happy cds replaced vinyls. And this is where I stop. |
I really can't stand classical recordings from before around 1960. I don't care how excellent the playing is, the distortion from the old microphones makes it unlistenable.
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It pains me to have to agree with misery guts but yes, I was in a record store this week and saw 'Leonard Bernstein conducts Rodeo by Aaron Copland' for a measly $5 (AUS) but yes, I put it back in the rack after seeing 195* on the cover (classical recordings from around this time just sound tinny and boxy to my ears)
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Classical recordings from that era on vinyl sound horrible. Remastered recordings of that era in cd can be good, like the magnificent St Matthew Passion conducted by Karl Richter (1957). It all depends but in general I tend to agree. I have quite a few mono recordings from even earlier than 1955 but they have to at least be pristine mono, in cd, not scratchy vinyl...
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
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Points: 3449
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 23:56 |
Jeez, I started this thread with the most innocent of intentions
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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