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TODDLER
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Posted: September 02 2011 at 22:33 |
Dean wrote:
I'm 54, so back then I lived in a village in deepest darkest north Bedfordshire with no access to music stores or venues other than small folk clubs that my Dad would take us to at weekends and the only "pop" music we heard came from the radio or one of the very few music variety programs on TV (well, we did get to see Hendrix on the Lulu show). I had an old steam (valve/tube) radio in my bedroom that had an old BSR turntable wired into it so I could play 45s (in mono), but most of the time I was listening to John Peel (Perfumed Garden and later Top Gear), Emperor Rosco and Pete Drummond playing hippy psychedelic music. My Dad wasn't a musician (he was a wood-machinist/carpenter) but he could knock out a tune on the harmonica if we weren't quick enough to hide them from him; he would often come home with bizarre instruments he'd bought of "some bloke in the pub" or at jumble sales; or he would buy strange albums of celtic folk or odd jazz albums that consisted of nothing but percussion or the soundtrack to "Secret of the Inca's" an album of exotica featuring Yma Sumac and her 5 octave vocal range; and being a woodworker by trade, he would occasionally make instruments, such as my first guitar (with only four strings because he could only scrounge four machine-heads). These experiences formed in me a curiosity for the unusual and the weird.
5 miles away was Santa Pod Raceway and as kids we used to cut across the fields and woods to sneak in the back-way to avoid paying, this was our small patch of America in the heart of rural England where we could immerse ourselves in Americana listening to Beach Boys and Jefferson Airplane over the Tanoy, while gawping at hot rods and top-fuel dragsters pumping the smell of Nitromethane into the air, where visiting celebrities like Don Garlits would show us how it was really done, shaving several seconds off our local boys best times down the strip. That love of drag racing was often the trigger for making like-minded friends at school and later at work (one of my work friends, Steve Horn, later went on to work for Santa Pod Raceway as a timing marshal and driver of the "house" jet car), but that came later, after (in 1968) I moved up to High School.
High School was a whole new world, being 10 miles away it started with a 45 minute bus ride where we would pick up kids from other villages en-route and the conversation always centred around music and cars and we would read NME and Sounds for the latest news and release (Melody Maker was ignored for being "too jazz & blues") and swap albums and singles with each other (cassettes hadn't been invented yet, though I did have a portable ¼ reel-to-real tape machine for producing mix-tapes, splicing the sound effects from Moody Blues and Floyd between the tracks... and of course the dragster noise from Simon & Garfunkel's 'Baby Driver'). These were the days before HMV and Virgin meagre stores, so Bedford's record shops also sold hi-fi and musical instruments, so after school we would trawl these shops looking for anything interesting that we'd read about in the music mags or heard on the late-night radio. I remember in the early 70s one of these shops' window display was Van der Graaf Generator's 'At Least We Can Do Is Wave At Each Other' - occupying the whole shop front with a real Van der Graff generator and cotton-wool clouds adding to the 3D cardboard cut-out of the album cover itself - this display mesmerised me so much I had to buy the album with money saved from my lunch-money.
The school playground at lunch time was a nest of small cliques of kids into various forms of music, this was divided mainly into two main groups - the skinheads into reggae, Motown and R&B and the Freaks and Rockers into head-music, heavy music and Prog Rock (yes, we did call it that in 1970-73); the cool kids had Zappa, Beefheart, Crimson and White Noise, the teenie-boppers were into Glam Rock, while me and my friends hovered between them, liking all music that came our way, from The Beatles to the Move, from Hendrix to Zappa, from Bowie to Bolan, from Hawkwind to Amon Duul, and of course The Moodies to Floyd, our eclecticism allowed us to be tolerated by both camps, albeit begrudgingly at times when I inadvertently mentioned "Electric Warrior" to the cool kids.
London was 45 miles away by train, and that was the real Mecca of music for us, but at 14 years old getting there was an expedition (we did take one trip just to visit the Virgin import shop in Marble Arch - just about the only source of Krautrock at the time). In 1972 I saw Pink Floyd at Wembley Pool performing The Dark Side Of The Moon - hours spent listening to Meddle and Ummagumma hadn't prepared me for that - it blew me away. Later "expeditions" to London were to buy albums and Sci-Fi books from the many record & book stores around Soho, Totenham Court Road and Oxford Street. Carnaby Street was crass commercialised shadow of its former self by 1973, but still we'd visit the head shops looking for hippy clothes, loons and scoop-neck shirts and being approached by weirdo's asking if we "wanted to score"...
[I was never into drugs and still aren't, though beer, cheap wine and cigarettes were not a problem, however I saw plenty of it at the time (weed makes me sneeze uncontrollably). For me music was never about drugs, music was the drug, regardless of how high the artist may have been when they recorded it.]
Reading through the posts in this thread has reminded me of one source "deleted" music that was available to us - that was a warehouse type store just off Oxford Street that sold American Imports - these were bin-end remainders that hadn't sold in the US so were shipped over en-mass to the UK and sold a ridiculously cheap prices. These were instantly recognisable for being made of really thick cardboard and usually having one corner of the sleeve clipped off or a ¼" hole stamped through the corner - if I recall correctly my entire Bo Hansson collection and first Philip Glass albums were from this store, as was Tim Blake's Crystal Machine (though I think I perhaps bought that in a similar store in Edinburgh much later).
1974/5 began my obsession with The Enid - I followed them around the home-counties, bought everything they released and joined The Enid Appreciation Society - I was at their make-or-break gigs at the Round House and The Hammersmith Odean, but still the best gigs of theirs I attended were at smaller venues and college Student Union bars in Bedford, Cranfield, Northampton and Leicester.
By 1975 we had transport, my friend Steve bought a huge 6 cylinder Vauxhall Cresta off my Dad and that was our taxi out of the sticks and into music venues further afield, with Friar's Club in Aylesbury being our main port of call - here we saw Peter Gabriel on his first solo tour. |
Wow! I am amazed by this post! I discovered the Enid very late in life. I've been pretty obsessed with them in the past. They were very disciplined. The first 4 albums leave me speechless.
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TODDLER
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Posted: September 02 2011 at 23:27 |
A great part of the 70's for me was listening to Pink Floyd. D.S.O.T.M. was great at first then I grew tired of it.....so it was mostly every release up to that point It was very exciting and personally meaningful to me. It allowed me to experiment. It gave me identity and provided me with the real deal. Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother were more Avant-Garde Rock than psych. Roger Waters instead of writing about his school days most of the time was hanging about with Ron Geesin. Ron Geesin was a film composer with a diverse nature about him. The Scottish humour, T.V. commercials, and actual serious Avant-Garde pieces. He was multi-talented. Meddle and Obscured By Clouds were the bloodstream leading into D.S.O.T.M.
Some of the acoustic ballads off Umagumma and A.H.M. sound inspired like themes gleaned from literature and visual art. They seemed a little Julliard then as some of those pieces utilized broad dynamic range. They could have used string quartet in some of those pieces. As a teen I was very obsessed with Syd Barrett. In the 70's kids often thought of him as the strange guy who formed Pink Floyd and neglected to investigate his solo albums or put together how influential he was to other artists like David Bowie. Not at all the vision we have of him today with the many websites and abundance of Syd copy cats. In the beginning he wrote insane children's songs. It felt that way to me more so than the psych feel. I praised him for his lyricism and his unique sense of drama. He had expressive capacities within his writing. He was a very odd character in the rock music world. His career sizzled out rather quickly . The bright and cheerful yet bizzare Syd on Piper became the gloom and doom Syd on Madcaps. The difference after the breakdown was shocking. I played "Golden Hair' everyday and it reminded me of a song which fit the MORE album or even Atom Heart Mother, but the magic in "Lucifer Sam", "Scarecrow" etc...had vanished.
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jammun
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Posted: September 02 2011 at 23:46 |
Please oh please dont allow some potential employer to actually link this post to my email address, for I am going to tell you how it was. When in high school I wrote a letter to the editor of the school newspaper describing my weekly drug intake, indicating that it had no affect on my academic performance (which admittedly prior to said drug use had not been all that great). Some acid weekly, some mescaline weekly, some pot and/or hash daily, but never the nasty stuff (heroin, coke, meth, that was for idiots; and very rarely any alcohol. Friday night was not a drinking night, it was a tripping night). My history teacher read that letter out loud to the class shortly after it appeared, and said "I can assure you this person will never graduate from high school." I earned an A in that class. I had a close call in my senior year, when a mescaline purchase turned into a sorta drug bust. It was a slippery slope there for a bit, but in the end there was no evidence that any transaction had taken place (Judas informer was unreliable). I will say, it was 1971, all of my friends, and even those who were not my friends, rallied behind me. My academic performance was the best it had ever been, which seemed to completely addle and confuse the school's powers that were as well as that detective. My teachers stood behind me. "His school work has never been better, and he never misses class. He regularly participates in the classroom discussions, often to the exclusion of others." The school principal was at a loss. "It seems his grades are actually getting better over the last two years." Idiots. Imagine if I had been like the school jocks, drinking myself into a stupor regularly, showing up to my 7:30 AM class hungover. My friends and I, we were above that. We might have been experiencing a few visual and aural surreal artifacts at 7:30, but our minds were keen. We were Starship Troopers, exploring deep recesses of the inner self, and it was not coincidental that progressive rock was the soundtrack for those explorations. Not coincidental at all. I didn't care about school at all. I cared about being let out of school to go have a bit of hash, then go home and play my Hammond L100 for hours. All informed by the prog that was being played at the time. Understand, I have a few regrets and do not condone drug use. As one of my friends sez, 'you don't use drugs, drugs use you', which would have been a better slogan than that lame 'just say no' deal. Whatever. It was the early '70s and these things happened. I can tell you from first-hand experience, when a person goes to a concert and sees that classic Yes play Heart of the Sunrise with a 4-way hit of Orange Sunshine coursing through his bloodstream and completely rewiring his brain chemistry, it is a religious experience comparable to that which Moses had with that burning bush, when that angel of Yahweh did appear. Disclaimer: I have not used psychedelic drugs for 30 years now and do not necessarily recommend them. Just telling you all how it was.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Atavachron
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 00:18 |
I think I hear Dean sneezing
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jammun
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 00:24 |
Dean's doing just fine, just a little dust in the room.
Edited by jammun - September 03 2011 at 00:42
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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presdoug
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 12:32 |
TODDLER wrote:
presdoug wrote:
moshkito wrote:
...
We might have gotten that in the top ten radio (AM radio) in those days, but FM radio did not have a top ten for 10 years until it was bought out by all the record companies ... dig this ... the major conglomerate that distributes music in America owns the single largest number of FM stations in the country ... do you wonder why I do not listen to FM radio anymore? ... they only play the "artists" they deliver to all the stores, and nothing else, and don't even follow the required rules that the FCC had requested for these stations in the big city ... the requirements of which are being filled out by PSA's.
True! True! and very true! Why does it seem as if a lot of people don't get this? Is it the seperation of generations? We were exposed to everything as a way of life. Every single point you bring out here about AM and FM. It shouldn't be the seperate....I can't relate to the older folks thing because
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I don't think there is a separation of generations any more today, than there was yesterday, or 40 years ago, when I was working at the Rathskeller in Madison, Wisconsin.
Just like then, there were factions ... the democrats that stood against the VietNam War and the Republicans that were trying to be cooler than thou by saying that we were not supporting the troops ... which of course was not true, and was a gross b*****dization of the whole situation ... somethings never change in life! But the democrats usually had longer hair than the republicans to give you an idea of the absurdity of the whole thing!
We were exposed to as much then, as people are now. And we were just as stupid then, as we are now ... the only thing that has changed? ... we're fatter, uglier and snore a little louder!
In the end, it is all about how much to do you want to open your eyes, your ears, and your heart ... and nothing else.
FM and AM radio were different. Again, in the first 10 years, FM was the voice of the new age and the new feelings and the new revolution, but when it started selling big, and many bands getting into the millions, they all got bought out by the record conglomerates. And that is when the proliferation of new music and groups stopped, and instead it become ... let's make a million with Genesis and bruhaha ... and dump the rest ... heck ... the WEA distribution conglomerate paid the Rolling Stones many millions to go on tour with a humungous penis on the stage for Mick to ride ... and then Led Zep got 100 million or something like that ... and you know the result of that was right? .... more than 5000 groups lost their distribution ability over night ...
And 20 years later, when the Satelite thing came out, it was even more blatant of a corporate thing .... and everyone thought it was cool, which means that the advertising got you hooked ... but none of us here had the balls to lay it on the line ... and still don't! And for me, the sad thing is ... a board like this, other than a thread like this one, is not interested in adding the history to the website and help make sense of the music ... now you know why so many reviews of "In the Court of the Crimson King" are so off base! They are no longer the snapshot of that day and time and place and people ... they are some imaginary idea of music that had nothing to do with anything else.
It speaks volumes for the importance and value of the music itself and the work of so many of us that deserve a little pat in the back ... we did really well folks, and we're still doing well! And that music is remembered and loved ... I would never trade a million dollars for the love and affection found in this place for some of the most beautiful music ever recorded! Go ahead and try!
Now we just need to get the rest of the folks in PA to believe also! | ^Hey, man, you lay it on the line, Moshkito-that is your greatest post!
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Moshkito can surely teach me a thing or 2! He is a historian on a subject such as this one. |
But your stories are interesting and insightful, too, TODDLER!
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jammun
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 16:31 |
To sort of counteract my earlier post...the one which had Dean sneezing. Some of us cared. Ya wanna have a lottery to determine whether or not you go to Viet Nam? Is that what you want? That's what it was. And no right to vote! I still have my 1-A draft card. That's a priceless, for me, piece of history. Good thing I lucked out in the lottery, though obviously some here may disagree, and I would better have been a name on that wall.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Alitare
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 17:03 |
I just read Stephen King's Heart's in Atlantis, which was basically a 'what it was like in the late 1960's, early 1970's' novel. Jammun, I found your story to be very interesting. If it means anything, I'd rather be alive and breathing than a name on a wall. But I don't know too much.
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jammun
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 17:59 |
I am glad to be still here...others were not so fortunate. Y'all might want to watch Apocalypse Now. I assume it is true to the era. But I wasn't there so won't vouch for it. I lucked out in that draft, being only number 120 or so. Imagine, a horrible time, with the best freaking music on the planet being made. I spoke of coincidence a bit ago. Who's gonna step up in these times, which are not exactly happy?
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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presdoug
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 19:37 |
one of the live music highlights of the seventies for me must have been in 1977, when i saw The Stampeders in my high school play their hit "Wild Eyes", complete with strobe light during the guitar solo! god, i guess i was only about 13 at the time
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TODDLER
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Posted: September 03 2011 at 22:03 |
In the 70's most prog cover bands in America were working 6 nights a week and making it a full time job. With the right management and radio broadcast coverage you could go far. In the 70's the clubs I played up and down the east coast were 6 nighters with a decent crowd on Monday night which built up to the weekend chaos crowd which packed the places. This is unheard of today. Clubs are hardly hiring anyone for a week. The scene was so different then. You could play in 1 particular club and do a 40 minute set with a prog or top 40 cover band , grab your guitar and run across the street to do another set with an original band. The money was ridiculous....you could make any where from 700 hundred to a thousand dollars a week and that was in 1978. There was no need to have a part time job of any sort making this kind of money. You were driven around and protected by a road crew . People would get to know your face and connections were easy to obtain. In some bands you had no protection and you had to depend on the bouncer to pull people off of you. There were mixed crowds in the audiences that belonged to a club of their own. Bikers, greasers, druggies...etc. It was dangerous to perform in front of them. If a fight broke out within a huge crowd like that innocent people could die or get seriously injured. In the 70's I used to watch large crowds shift from one side of the room to the other.
The magnitude of the violence you would not believe when you are traveling from one state to the next. I witnessed many kids taken away in the meat-wagon because of a bad acid trip. You might be approached by a beautiful woman whose husband is sitting at the bar drinking. By the time he is ready to kill you the bodyguards escort him outside....if they don't break his front teeth first. Now you start to feel guilty. The worse part of road travel was sleeping on the bus. You see everyday people with their kids having fun as you look out the bus window and you don't feel normal. People just followed you around in the music scene because they wanted to manipulate you ...not love you as friends. You are inside a shell and very much alone. It felt that way on the road during the 70's. Not a life I was cut out for.
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jammun
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Posted: September 04 2011 at 00:37 |
Pot haze, hiking through the back woods of Wyoming. Yellowstone. The Tetons. Those were great times, camped out along the Snake River listening to Mahavishnu. I don't know how I made it through those times in one piece. Maybe I didn't.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Jake Kobrin
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Posted: September 04 2011 at 01:23 |
Jammun, maybe I can ask you because you would probably know. Were psilocybin mushrooms available during the 60's and 70's? I heard that they were very difficult to get, unless you flew to Oaxaca or a similar place, because people were unaware that there were varieties growing all around them and growing them at home was unheard of at the time (which is I'm pretty sure what dealers do now.) I also heard that any mushrooms in the market were actually just store bought mushrooms laced with LSD. It seems like the only psychedelics available at the time were LSD, Mescaline/Peyote, and occasionally poorly synthesized DMT? Is that true?
I'm not supporting drug use or anything like that, but my curiosity for psychedelics and psychedelic culture compelled me to ask.
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jammun
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Posted: September 04 2011 at 11:01 |
Jake Kobrin wrote:
Jammun, maybe I can ask you because you would probably know. Were psilocybin mushrooms available during the 60's and 70's? I heard that they were very difficult to get, unless you flew to Oaxaca or a similar place, because people were unaware that there were varieties growing all around them and growing them at home was unheard of at the time (which is I'm pretty sure what dealers do now.) I also heard that any mushrooms in the market were actually just store bought mushrooms laced with LSD. It seems like the only psychedelics available at the time were LSD, Mescaline/Peyote, and occasionally poorly synthesized DMT? Is that true?
I'm not supporting drug use or anything like that, but my curiosity for psychedelics and psychedelic culture compelled me to ask. |
We are treading in dangerous waters here, forum-rules-wise. However... First...I think all currently illegal drugs should be legal. The meth-heads will kill themselves (good riddance), the pot-heads will be numbed and happy, and the rest of us can get on with our lives without being subjected to the daily violence that is a result of the illegal drug trade. Psylocybins? I had them exactly once, late-70's. They came from a very unlikely source, a lawyer who worked for our state senator in DC. I have no idea how that guy ended up in my living room on that particular evening but he was passing them out and I munched down more than a few. We were probably listening to Talking Heads or Eno or Supertramp. it was a fine evening. But think about it...they are mushrooms. The high is basically a mushroom poisoning (albeit a pleasant one). No different really than Amanita muscaria. These things have been used by many cultures over the centuries. I suppose it's not all that different from the Japanese fugu fish. Eat the right parts, you're very happy. Eat the wrong parts, you die. I had the good fortune to make it through that era. Hunter S. Thompson was my spiritual guide during those times, which should tell you all you need to know. As said, I have not used any illegal drugs for years (having a couple of kids tends to put things into proper perspective) and do not recommend them. Now, anyone reading this, go listen to Neil Young's Tonight's the Night. No it is not a prog album. But it will tell you everything you need to know about drug use in that era.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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jammun
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Posted: September 04 2011 at 11:17 |
On a lighter note, did I tell y'all about the time I saw Grand Funk and Ten Years After at Red Rocks? Or Quicksilver and James Gang (Joe Walsh!) at the Denver Colliseum? I'm sure I've mentioned many times the ELP/Mahavishnu concert, as well as the Yes/Allman Brothers. Smaller venues? I talked with Bill Connors during a break at a Return To Forever show. Spoke with Candy Givens as she was taking a smoke break at a Zephyr show (Tommy Bolin era). Spoke with Count Basie! Spoke with Joe Zawinul. Sat two feet from Herbie as he played Spank-A-Lee. I was blessed to be around during that era. It was a magical time.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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presdoug
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Posted: September 04 2011 at 12:12 |
jammun wrote:
On a lighter note, did I tell y'all about the time I saw Grand Funk and Ten Years After at Red Rocks? Or Quicksilver and James Gang (Joe Walsh!) at the Denver Colliseum? I'm sure I've mentioned many times the ELP/Mahavishnu concert, as well as the Yes/Allman Brothers. Smaller venues? I talked with Bill Connors during a break at a Return To Forever show. Spoke with Candy Givens as she was taking a smoke break at a Zephyr show (Tommy Bolin era). Spoke with Count Basie! Spoke with Joe Zawinul. Sat two feet from Herbie as he played Spank-A-Lee. I was blessed to be around during that era. It was a magical time. |
Wow, Mahavishnu and ELP together sounds really cool-ever see Blue Cheer or Bloodrock back in the day?
Edited by presdoug - September 04 2011 at 12:14
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jammun
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Posted: September 04 2011 at 13:47 |
presdoug wrote:
jammun wrote:
On a lighter note, did I tell y'all about the time I saw Grand Funk and Ten Years After at Red Rocks? Or Quicksilver and James Gang (Joe Walsh!) at the Denver Colliseum? I'm sure I've mentioned many times the ELP/Mahavishnu concert, as well as the Yes/Allman Brothers. Smaller venues? I talked with Bill Connors during a break at a Return To Forever show. Spoke with Candy Givens as she was taking a smoke break at a Zephyr show (Tommy Bolin era). Spoke with Count Basie! Spoke with Joe Zawinul. Sat two feet from Herbie as he played Spank-A-Lee. I was blessed to be around during that era. It was a magical time. | Wow, Mahavishnu and ELP together sounds really cool-ever see Blue Cheer or Bloodrock back in the day?
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The nice thing about that Mahavishnu/ELP show was that we went to see ELP and had no idea who Mahavishnu was. Though obviously after the show it wasn't too long before we bought Inner Mounting Flame. Mahavishnu was the opening act, and very nearly got the better of ELP. I had never heard music like that before. McLaughlin with his goofy double neck guitar, Hammer playing only a Rhodes with a ring modulator attached, Cobham just pounding out the rhythm. Wow, we did not know what hit us.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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brainstormer
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Posted: September 05 2011 at 19:18 |
I remember being in a "prog" band when I was about 15. This was probably 1978. It was just me (keyboards),. a chubby friend who really couldn't play bass, and a drummer. The one song we could play was "Celebration" by PFM, because it had such a simple hook line on the keyboard. The drummer somehow had discovered Starcastle, and had their first two albums, and since there really wasn't much else that sounded like them, Starcastle was considered an incredible groundbreaking band. Not to put down Starcastle (which I know doing so carries some cache in these parts), but to 15 year olds, Starcastle was a pretty heavy band in 1978! We took them VERY SERIOUSLY.
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TODDLER
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Posted: September 05 2011 at 20:03 |
jammun wrote:
On a lighter note, did I tell y'all about the time I saw Grand Funk and Ten Years After at Red Rocks? Or Quicksilver and James Gang (Joe Walsh!) at the Denver Colliseum? I'm sure I've mentioned many times the ELP/Mahavishnu concert, as well as the Yes/Allman Brothers. Smaller venues? I talked with Bill Connors during a break at a Return To Forever show. Spoke with Candy Givens as she was taking a smoke break at a Zephyr show (Tommy Bolin era). Spoke with Count Basie! Spoke with Joe Zawinul. Sat two feet from Herbie as he played Spank-A-Lee. I was blessed to be around during that era. It was a magical time. |
A great experience
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presdoug
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Posted: September 05 2011 at 20:09 |
brainstormer wrote:
I remember being in a "prog" band when I was about 15. This was probably 1978. It was just me (keyboards),. a chubby friend who really couldn't play bass, and a drummer. The one song we could play was "Celebration" by PFM, because it had such a simple hook line on the keyboard. The drummer somehow had discovered Starcastle, and had their first two albums, and since there really wasn't much else that sounded like them, Starcastle was considered an incredible groundbreaking band. Not to put down Starcastle (which I know doing so carries some cache in these parts), but to 15 year olds, Starcastle was a pretty heavy band in 1978! We took them VERY SERIOUSLY.
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I still remember when i was first introduced to Starcastle myself, the first album, in the winter of 1978-79, when i was 15, by a local rock drummer named Mike Jackson, who was a brilliant musician, but also a stoner to the third degree-he also turned me onto Atomic Rooster and Wishbone Ash for the first time as well he moved out west in 1980, i think, and never heard from him again, but all those bands stuck with me!
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