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Sweetnighter 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 1298
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 Topic: Epic vs. Concept Album
Posted: November 20 2004 at 10:46 |
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Close your eyes and do the following. For one minute, I want you to
imagine your ultimate dream prog band. It could have anybody in it that
you like, and they could play prog in whatever vein you most prefer.
Now, there's one catch- the band can only release one album. Would you
rather that album be a concept album with fantastic but shorter, 5-6
minute pieces, or an album with one spectacular epic track on it with
all the other tracks being very unmemorable and of poorer quality?
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 10:48 |
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i love epics and concept albums. but i write concept albums so i jus had to go for them. i think they have more depth.
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The Worthless Recluse
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gdub411
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Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 3484
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 10:51 |
There is so much you can do in an epic tune...so many realms to explore.
What says this epic cannot be an entire album length?
with that said I choose epic hands down.
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 10:56 |
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Well I suppose it could be an entire album length, something along the
lines of Thick as a Brick, but for the sake of the poll assume that its
a typical 20-min epic and that the rest of the album isn't as good, to
level the playing field between the epic and the concept album.
I think I'm going to go with concept album. I love epics, I really
do... but unified concept albums that tell stories through great
music... I don't know, I just love 'em. Marillion's Misplaced Childhood
and Gentle Giant's Three Friends are among my favorites.
Edited by Sweetnighter
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Eddy
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Joined: September 22 2004
Location: USA
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Points: 637
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 11:37 |
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i dont listen to what singers say, i only listen to the sound they make. for example, i hear jon andersons voice, but i dont pay attention to what he's actually saying. I pay attention to the sound it makers toghtther with the music. . therfor, i choose epic, because it gives you a emotion, a feeling, not a story, thats truee music, at lkeast for me
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Vegetableman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 27 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 12:34 |
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I said Epic. Ill always take Foxtrot over the Lamb, or Animals or WYWH over the Wall.
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"Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?"
"Progressive.... yeah, that's it..."
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Joren
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 13:36 |
I prefer epics, but you said that the other tracks are poor (Emerson Lake and Palmer like?  ), so I voted for concept album, with all great tracks!
MORE
GOOD
MUSIC !
(Are you ready Eddy?  )
Edited by Joren
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 13:44 |
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Personally, I’ve always preferred a unified concept
but spread over a number of tracks.
Epics, to me, are fraught with danger. They can work
spectacularly well – Supper's Ready, Echoes – but
they can also be hanstrung by a need to hit a mark in
length or design - Rush’s Fountains of Lamneth, etc.
With an epic the temptation is to bolt on irrelevant or
ill-fitting sections with the abrupt, and often
misplaced, change of key/chord/pace and it has a
detrimental effect on the whole.
With a concept at least there is the freedom to step
out of the confines of a relatively rigid framework and
throw in something radically different to the piece
that went before, whilst at the same time remaining
true to the thematic elements of the whole.
Pink Floyd’s The Wall is a good case in point. Mother
bears little relation to Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2
yet the continuity is maintained via the linking sound
effects. This is a particularly effective method of
achieving continuity to me. And also adds
atmosphere and drama to what otherwise might feel
like wildly separate entities.
Of course, with an epic there is the scope to
musically explore a motif or series of themes across
a long stretch of time ans this can be equally
rewarding but personally I'll always plump for a
concept album, Floyd being the masters to me.
Yes did try to blend both on Topgraphic Oceans but
with varying degrees of success depending on your
view of that controversial record (see another
loooooong thread elsewhere)
In an ideal world, how about a concept album with
short, punchy pieces, long rambling epics all
stitched together by some judicious use of sound
effects! cool.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 14:20 |
To be honest, I don't care, there are magnificent Conceptual albums without any epic, great albums with only one ore two epics and even plain prog' albums without concept or epics, the important thing is the music, the format doesn't bothers me very much.
........But I like conceptual albums with epics  like:
- Tales from Topographic Oceans.........4 epics
- Magenta's Revolutions.....4 excellent epics.
- 666.....All the seats were Occupied
- Thick as a Brick……..A concept/epic album/song
- Illusions on a Double Dimple…. Illusions on a Double Dimple and Mister Ten Percent
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Carlos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2004
Location: Ecuador
Status: Offline
Points: 284
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 17:08 |
BEING A PROG FAN SINCE 1998... I HAVE DISCOVERED SOME OF THE "FACES" THAT DISTINGUISH PROG FORM ANOTHER STYLES OF ROCK AND ROLL. SWEETNIGHTER WITH HIS POLL JUST PUT TWO OF THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERISTICS OF PR AND THOSE ARE THE CONCEPT ALBUMS AND EPIC SONGS (LONG, AND I MEAN VERY LONG SONGS IF YOU LIKE).
IMO I'D PREFER A FANTASTIC CONCEPT ALBUM...FIRST, BECAUSE IT WOULD BE WELL DONE THAN THE SECOND OPTION...I MEAN I RAVE FOR EPIC TRACKS, BUT I ALWAYS GIVE MY OPINION ON THE ALBUM, BUT NOT FOR ONE OR TWO SONGS FROM ONE OR ANOTHER RECORD...
BUT IF THE ALBUM WITH THE EPIC TRACK HAS NO FILLERS WELL, THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT... BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE, I VOTE FOR THE CONCEPT RECORD
Edited by Carlos
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Democracy=A form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people...
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goose
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Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 18:12 |
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I'd say a concept album because it could be more epic in its scope than an epic..?
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greenback
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 18:15 |
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I like excellent albums from begin to end: I chose concept albums, like Clutching at Straws!
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penguindf12
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Joined: September 20 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 831
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Posted: November 20 2004 at 23:54 |
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The only difference between a concept album and an album-length epic is that the former has track divisions. The music doesn't even have to stop! So essentially, there isn't that much of a difference. A side-long epic IS a concept album, 'cause the epic is a concept, and the epic is also the album.
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Peter
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Joined: January 31 2004
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 01:06 |
Ok. I think I've got the concept....
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
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Points: 7456
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 05:22 |
Epic.
An album could have at least a couple of epics on them .Take Closer to the Edge and Selling England by the Pound as a couple of examples.3 epics on CTTE and the same for Selling England(Firth of Fifth,Cinema Show & Battle of Ep(ic)ping Forest.  )
Edited by Man Erg
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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zappa123
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2004
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 05:59 |
I love them both.So I would like to hear conceptual epic album.I think that conceptual album can be epic.wouldn't you agree?
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zappa123
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Joined: July 13 2004
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 06:01 |
 penguindf12 wrote:
The only difference between a concept album and an album-length epic is that the former has track divisions. The music doesn't even have to stop! So essentially, there isn't that much of a difference. A side-long epic IS a concept album, 'cause the epic is a concept, and the epic is also the album. |
I totally agree with you.I think the conceptual and epic is pretty much the same.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 10:49 |
Eddy wrote:
i dont listen to what singers say, i only listen to the sound they make. for example, i hear jon andersons voice, but i dont pay attention to what he's actually saying. I pay attention to the sound it makers toghtther with the music. . therfor, i choose epic, because it gives you a emotion, a feeling, not a story, thats truee music, at lkeast for me |
Yeah I feel the same way. Sometimes you can't evenmake out what the singer is saying. I go for the music but enjoy great lyrics when they are clearly presented. A good example is Lucky man by ELP. I also listen to a lot of music in other languages such as Hungarian, Italian and German so the words don't really matter. I speak F rench so French music isn't really a problem for me.
Edited by Vibrationbaby
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Vibrationbaby
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Joined: February 13 2004
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Points: 6898
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 10:58 |
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I went for epic Because I prefer instrumentals like Hamburger Concerto and stuff like Solar music Live which I would consider to be an epic. Are we goig to get into a what is/ wwhat isn't an epic now that we've beaten the whatis/what isn't prog debate?
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James Lee
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Posted: November 21 2004 at 11:56 |
^ I don't think that would be wise. "Prog" is a manufactured term, so all the abuse that's done in the course of defining it is justified to some extent. On the other hand, "epic" and "concept" are actual terms that don't deserve that kind of clumsy misuse.
oh, and I almost forgot...
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Epic vs. Concept Album
