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Dean 
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
 Posted: September 06 2011 at 07:10 |
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Affidavits are unnecessary. I have said before (when Oliver offered to let me listen to his portable set up if I journeyed to Paris), I'm sure his system sounds wonderful.
That isn't the point Mike and I are making - I believe his system sounded just as good "out-of-the-box", without the superfluous audiophilist modifications and tweaks, without the expensive cabling and redundant anti-vibration additions.
"Pushing Walls" just means loud, and that is a testament to the Loudspeakers and their designer, not to the amp or any cabling or any tweaking a home-based amateur does after purchasing them - any power amp can make speakers sound loud using any cable you care to buy, it's the ability of the speakers themselves to handle that power across the audio spectrum at significant volume without distortion or inducing other audio artifacts that determines the capability of a system to "push walls".
Similarly his portable set-up would sound just as good without the ALO interconnect and it would sound just as good without the Red Wine *modification* to the iPlod - where he has improved it is by adding the external Headphone Amp so that it can drive his HD25-1's (because a iPlod cannot drive 65ohms even with the Red Wine modification). And here the make and construction of the headphone amp is immaterial, it just needs to be designed to drive medium impedance headphones adequately, and the simplest home-construction headphone amp will do that for a fraction of the price of the RSA Mustang P51
...out of interest, the Grado RA1 headphone amp that retails for £400 in the UK is made from £5 worth of average quality components and can be built into an empty tic-tac box - what you are paying for is the name and a badly made mahogany box. Similarly I can build a copy of the Mustang P51 out of the components in my junk box that would sound exactly the same as the $250 RSA version - it just wouldn't look as nice because I can't make the pretty anodised aluminium case on my kitchen table.
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 27 2010 Location: FRANCE Status: Offline Points: 2585 |
Posted: September 01 2011 at 10:03 |
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Yes i had a realy great sound experience..As well with the sound system at home as with the portable system in the garden...I 've never heard any music that way before, it was kind of first experience with the headphone when i was a teen, but far better of course, i mean i could see a sonic picture with each instrument and sound at its own place.I guess not a lot of poeple listen to music that way but it's the way it should be....And of course Oliverstoned only played me great albums extracts...Today i can answer Hendrix question...Are you experienced? Yes i've been....And i think it's good to meet a Hi Fi guru like Oliverstoned because it helps to improve our own sound system and to hear music like it shoud be heard, very impressive.....
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: August 31 2011 at 11:44 |
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Buddy Jean Marie came home yesterday (for the first time) and we had a great prog listening session. So JM discovered the home Hifi setup and the portable one as well. Now he knows what "pushing walls" hifi sounds like.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
Posted: August 17 2011 at 10:51 |
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^ 1,000 years!! I just need it to last till December 2012...after that will not matter anymore.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: August 17 2011 at 05:15 |
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A company starts producing DVDs with anorganic layer, and plan to try it with BluRay discs too: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/M-READY-M-DISC-Millenniata-DVD-rock-like,news-12173.html
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: August 15 2011 at 18:34 |
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That articles basically confirms all the things I already suspected.
A related story: Buzz off! Noisy device drives away |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
Posted: August 15 2011 at 17:44 |
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^
I love my brown lamp cord speaker wire, it pushes my walls.....economically!
Great article.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 14 2011 at 19:01 |
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Very nice article about the extreme necessity of buying 20000 dollar speaker wire and 500 dollar power cords...
(By the way, don't tell anybody but I sell 500 dollar hdmi cables and 200 dollar speaker wire as part of my job... 
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: July 30 2011 at 20:21 |
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Get one of these and all yer LP's will sound great.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: July 26 2011 at 11:07 |
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^ Thanks for pointing this out - I indeed meant primarily mastering in this case, although some albums also end up getting remixed for a remaster.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20240 |
Posted: July 26 2011 at 10:14 |
Nope, the mixes were all the same - they haven't been remixed at all ... unless you meant EQ
Now the mastering (or remastering) was different on some releases
And it was not a question of "digital vs analog" since all three samples were digitalized when transferred on the DAT.
Edited by Sean Trane - July 26 2011 at 10:22 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 19:30 |
The modern (digital) studio has been in existence for twenty years or so, hence my comment that it's not surprising we've taken this long to get to use it to its full potential. I think modern producers are reaching the potential of what the existing technology has to offer now (you cited Steven Wilson and he is one of many).
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 17:29 |
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Well if I follow your previous post...its gonna be 30-40 years before we see current equipment used to its full potential by current operators? Meaning we should expect "not the best" results in the recording industry right now?
Sorry, I am not an electrical engineer or sound engineer.....I'm a wood products guy that likes good music that's all. As usual appreciate your comments sir!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 17:17 |
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^ that's not what I was referring/meant to, but nevermind.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 13:28 |
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I only have one album from that "bar" band, I don't care for them much, its a blue album cover and I think is a compilation like 1967-1969 or something. I play it very sparingly as I figure some nutso will offer me $100 for it one day..its in VG+ condition and the gatefold is NM condition.
I also forgot to mention I also spun Rolling Stones Exile/Mainstreet (1972??) Anyhow, very well sounding vinyl from back in the day.
I agree technology is not the issue, learning how to use it probably is. I mean back in the day the soundboard had 30 buttons/switches.....Today I assume there are 530 buttons/switches
 .If and when these new fangled equipment becomes easier to use by studio folks, my hope is that older recordings that are known to be subpar, will be redone......maybe not.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 12:57 |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 12:38 |
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There are many modern albums featuring brilliant production (Catcher10 already mentioned Steve Wilson) - you just have to open your mind to accepting the possibility (this is aimed at people who are prejudiced against modern (audio) technology).
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 11:30 |
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^ Yea I did not mention those other Genesis albums and agree 100% they got those right or better than the earlier ones. I recognize the studios of those earlier albums and yes they are very good for the times. I don't have Genesis Live on vinyl only CD, but I totally enjoy Seconds Out on vinyl.
I don't think I blame the record companies, since they are about making money, which would make sense (to me) they would push for the "best" sound possible that will sell the most records. And I guess its true at the end of the day, its the artist who pushes for a particular sound.......maybe in the early years Genesis was tone deaf
 .Thanks for your comments Dean.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 10:51 |
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^ early Genesis albums do suffer from (what sounds like) poor production even though they were recorded in very good studios with very good equipment (for the day) and with experienced technicians - Trespass and Nusery Cryme were recorded at Trident, Foxtrot and SEbtP at Island, we can't even *blame* the producer in this case since Foxtrot anfd SEbtP had different producers so I assume this is what the band wanted. Judging by Genesis Live I suspect they were trying to reproduce the density of sound they had on stage, and I think they got that just about right on Lamb - Trick of the Tail and Wind&Wuthering are noticably different, the density is replaced by a much more open and airy sound. I think it is significant that Gabriel's solo albums PG1 and more so PG2 are very dense recordings (Gabriel even excludes all cymbols and hi-hat from the drum track as not to distract from that density of sound and I think that simple act reduced the muddiness that would have resulted if they had been left in) - that said, both of those albums are better produced than early Genesis, but I think that is simply that Gabriel had more studio experience by then.
As Henry has noted in the parallel thread to this on Dynamic Range (in Prog), in most cases we *blame* the record companies, (and the technology, the engineers and the producers), but often it is the artist who dictates how an album should sound.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
Posted: July 25 2011 at 10:27 |
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Maybe this is off topic since not really about the end of the CD.....But yesterday I started thinking about my collection. A lot of prog rock, jazz and funk/R&B. I might ramble here but hear me out......As I am interested in Dean's mastering comments.
My copies of the following vinyl are original releases (not remasters, or 180 pressings, blah,blah) Foxtrot, Selling England/Pound, ItCotKC, Aqualung. Of these Foxtrot and SEBtP are the "worst", only way to describe is very muddy sound, I have to use my EQ to enhance certain areas and give them some life. The others are better but still have that muddy sound. Now when I play the same albums I have on CD, the sound is much, much better, I believe all are remasters, I am not 100% sure though as I have not checked the catalog numbers, but probably.
So my wife was downstairs reading some cookbooks while I was spinning stuff, and rather than bore her with KC, I put on Off the Wall (1979) by Michael Jackson, again original vinyl release I have. The sound, the details are well, compared to SEBtP......amazing, brilliant, no comparison. After that excellent album, I put on my all time fav album All n' All (1977) by Earth, Wind & Fire...same album I bought in 1977. Again there is no comparison in these 2 albums and some of my prog albums all within 7 yrs of each other. With MJ and EW&F there is a lot of percussion, synth and rhythmn guitars also horns. Some of these exist in the prog albums mentioned......so I wonder
Is it the style of music? The instruments used? The quantity of musicians......or does a particular genre just get better production people (this is probably bad to say) than other genres?
Again, I don't have the exact tech lingo but these 2 Pop/R&B albums just sound soooo much better than SEBtP and Foxtrot. And since I am picking on Genesis (the only time I ever will
), my vinyl copies of Duke and Abacab are much better than the other two....very similar to my digital copies.I hope I made some kind of sense in this question/comment...thanks!
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New decade, end of the CD?
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Mr ProgFreak wrote: