Is ELP the Most Disliked Prog Band?

When you are the biggest target you have more missiles headed in your direction. That is possibly the problem with ELP. There is no doubt that in the early 70's ELP were one of the biggest Prog Bands around and they possibly eclipsed many of the other acts then artistically and technically. "Brain Salad Surgery" is one of the albums that I hold in the highest regard in Prog Rock and in the foundation of what we here know and love today.

giselle wrote: rogerthat wrote: giselle wrote: Nothing you've said is convincing to me either. My views are almost diametrically opposed to yours, I disagree with almost everything you've said in your last post and many of the posts before that. We could argue till doomsday and we'd never agree. On that basis,  I already said we should leave it where it is, as going further will only lead us into trouble with the prog authorities.   Objectivist beats a subjective retreat, much?    No, I'm trying to be sensible, unlike you. I personally don't want to be thrown out of the archives, even if you don't mind it happening to you. So let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Hmmm, so likening prog rock fans to boyband crowd behaviour and refusing to justify such a statement is such a sensible and objective approach?  Amen , if you say so,we shall agree to disagree. 

Ironically it was a music critic that got me interested in ELP and prog. The BBC aired a progamme around about 1976 that was about the history of rock music but it was taken from a revisionsist angle by someone clearly into Punk. ELP,Led Zeppelin and other classic rock acts were treated with contempt resulting in tons of fans jamming the switchboards to complain after the programme aired. Anyway the comment by the music critic that got me interested in ELP was ' I hate ELP because they play their music at a hundred miles an hour with no feeling'. I just had to get something by them after that

Edited by richardh - June 27 2011 at 14:04

rogerthat wrote: Hmmm, so likening prog rock fans to boyband crowd behaviour and refusing to justify such a statement is such a sensible and objective approach?  Amen , if you say so,we shall agree to disagree.

giselle wrote: rogerthat wrote: Hmmm, so likening prog rock fans to boyband crowd behaviour and refusing to justify such a statement is such a sensible and objective approach?  Amen , if you say so,we shall agree to disagree.    We definitely disagree, even about leaving this subject alone for the good of ourselves and the forum. I'm trying to do us both a favour, even though nothing you've said is remotely making sense to me, There is no chance in a million of you winning an argument with me, and we can already see that you can't let it go either, but if I was to reply in depth, this would continue to degenerate into something only the administrators would stop. Having had that experience several times already, I wouldn't want to push my luck.

You make a big statement and then not only to refuse to back it up but keep hammering my position with such statements...what's the big deal?  If you've gone through this whole discussion, my comments are only of the nature of innocent inquiry initially and for reasons best known to yourself, you have resorted to a defensive-aggressive posture and chosen to make evasive responses.  If you cannot back up what you say with cogent arguments, please don't make such sweeping pronouncements. If you not only allege that people are extremely biased about ELP but also urge quality analysis, you have to be able to demonstrate how and in what way they are biased and I am sorry, THAT is not very difficult at all irrespective of the seriousness or not of the thread.  And sorry but your strongly worded opening salvo calls for adequate justification.  If you'll only state your belief and move on like a "hit-and-run", in what way is that different from people who say "X band s**ks" and disappear (which, I take it, is your bone of contention)?

What precisely stops you from justifying your stand or would you rather I spell out that dreaded word based on what I infer it to be? If you cannot back up something you say, kindly take back your words, that's all, that is what you are supposed to do to end an argument, madam.  Ranting that "There is no chance in a million of you winning an argument with me" is neither here nor there.  Stop arguing with me, and instead please argue the point and if you have no arguments, please concede the point.  

giselle wrote: For someone that's been around as long as you have, I would have thought you would be wise enough to know when to call it a day before we both say things we regret.

Speak for yourself. I have steadfastly stuck to the boundaries of the discussion so I do not think that I'd have to resort to THAT at any event.  If you apprehend that you cannot mind your tongue, that is most definitely not my lookout.


Edited by rogerthat - June 27 2011 at 19:38

rogerthat wrote: giselle wrote: rogerthat wrote: Hmmm, so likening prog rock fans to boyband crowd behaviour and refusing to justify such a statement is such a sensible and objective approach?  Amen , if you say so,we shall agree to disagree.    We definitely disagree, even about leaving this subject alone for the good of ourselves and the forum. I'm trying to do us both a favour, even though nothing you've said is remotely making sense to me, There is no chance in a million of you winning an argument with me, and we can already see that you can't let it go either, but if I was to reply in depth, this would continue to degenerate into something only the administrators would stop. Having had that experience several times already, I wouldn't want to push my luck.     You make a big statement and then not only to refuse to back it up but keep hammering my position with such statements...what's the big deal?  If you've gone through this whole discussion, my comments are only of the nature of innocent inquiry initially and for reasons best known to yourself, you have resorted to a defensive-aggressive posture and chosen to make evasive responses.  If you cannot back up what you say with cogent arguments, please don't make such sweeping pronouncements. If you not only allege that people are extremely biased about ELP but also urge quality analysis, you have to be able to demonstrate how and in what way they are biased and I am sorry, THAT is not very difficult at all irrespective of the seriousness or not of the thread.  And sorry but your strongly worded opening salvo calls for adequate justification.  If you'll only state your belief and move on like a "hit-and-run", in what way is that different from people who say "X band s**ks" and disappear (which, I take it, is your bone of contention)? What precisely stops you from justifying your stand or would you rather I spell out that dreaded word based on what I infer it to be? If you cannot back up something you say, kindly take back your words, that's all, that is what you are supposed to do to end an argument, madam.  Ranting that "There is no chance in a million of you winning an argument with me" is neither here nor there.  Stop arguing with me, and instead please argue the point and if you have no arguments, please concede the point.   giselle wrote: For someone that's been around as long as you have, I would have thought you would be wise enough to know when to call it a day before we both say things we regret. Speak for yourself. I have steadfastly stuck to the boundaries of the discussion so I do not think that I'd have to resort to THAT at any event.  If you apprehend that you cannot mind your tongue, that is most definitely not my lookout.

I even disagree with that. You're just being awkward for the sake of it, and I know what I'd like to say in return. But I'll leave that to the authorities. Now be a good boy and go away - I won't be conceding ANYTHING.

rogerthat wrote: giselle wrote: I even disagree with that. You're just being awkward for the sake of it, and I know what I'd like to say in return. But I'll leave that to the authorities. Now be a good boy and go away - I won't be conceding ANYTHING.   More of the same, simply stating that you disagree, with no attempt to justify or clarify or elaborate and on flimsy grounds at that.  Ok, listen up, what you choose to concede and don't is not my concern.  My point, for the nth time, is that if you ask from objectivity from others, you must be able to justify why you feel others are too biased in their views about a band, otherwise no purpose whatsoever is served by your saying so. If you say you were merely expressing your opinion, that, as I already put to you, is no different from others expressing their opinion on a band so inferring prejudice there is counterproductive.  There is absolutely nothing awkward about this, save the way you are approaching this.   I have gone through the reviews and ratings for Tarkus. Only 3% ratings are of 2 stars and only 15% of 3 stars.  However, 42% are 4 stars as opposed to 40% 5 star ratings.  Thus, there is no evidence at least in the review database of a strong anti-ELP bias which you have implied.     If you have anything to say which refutes either of above two paras, that would be welcome. If you are simply going to say "I disagree" may I please request you not to say so? I already know that and it seems to me you'd just as well append the words "I disagree" to my posts irrespective of what has been said, so please do not make that effort.    You don't need to repeat over and over that you disagree but don't concede anything. If you disagree but offer no refutation, I shall take the point as conceded, thank you kindly.

You must be joking. I couldn't define anything you've said as either quirky or bizarre. Now go away.

The Dark Elf wrote: richardh wrote: Ironically it was a music critic that got me interested in ELP and prog. The BBC aired a progamme around about 1976 that was about the history of rock music but it was taken from a revisionsist angle by someone clearly into Punk. ELP,Led Zeppelin and other classic rock acts were treated with contempt resulting in tons of fans jamming the switchboards to complain after the programme aired. Anyway the comment by the music critic that got me interested in ELP was ' I hate ELP because they play their music at a hundred miles an hour with no feeling'. I just had to get something by them after that   Amusingly, I have a copy of the 1981 version of The Rolling Stone Magazine Record Guide, and the book is absolutely savage in its treatment of prog acts, while glorifying punk and new wave acts. Even more amusingly, I notice RS has recently changed many of its ratings, actually returning to some of the more favorable reviews the mag gave out in the early 70s (to bands like Yes and Tull, for instance). Revising their revisionism as it were. Stupid f*cking rag.

Yes

Wow - stopped the argument and the discussion... go, me!