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Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
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Points: 34055
Topic: single compared to double bass drum Posted: February 13 2011 at 05:37
I am not a drummer i must first confirm that, but i can play it porely,
but I love listening and thinking on differetn aproches to drumming, which their is alot of, and this question goes most to the rock and prog rock styles (not metal)
I often thinks that their is a different way of playing or think of drum lines in prog and symphonic rock, in terms of patterns, groove, and fills you can handle, when use of ether one pedal or double pedals or to bass drums,
I often think drummers like Michael Giles, Bill Bruford, Carl Palmar, Nick Mason , and Niel Peart gets alot of work done becouse of they use double bass and to me that gives the music more intencity and less pauce
wile drumers like the Gentle Giant drummers, Phil Collins, Bob Siebenberg, Kansas drummer, and I also think Camels drumer have single bass pedal, gives them more job to do, more busy, and needs to do more for compensate for lack of bass drum
I like both aproches creates diversity, but I need others (drummers) thought on this, and if im not making myself clare then tell me all about it.
Joined: May 07 2007
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 163
Posted: February 18 2011 at 14:09
aginor wrote:
I often thinks that their is a different way of playing or think of
drum lines in prog and symphonic rock, in terms of patterns, groove,
and fills you can handle, when use of ether one pedal or double pedals
or to bass drums,
I often think drummers like Michael Giles, Bill Bruford, Carl Palmar, Nick Mason ,
and Niel Peart gets alot of work done becouse of they use double bass
and to me that gives the music more intencity and less pauce
wile drumers like the Gentle Giant drummers, Phil Collins, Bob
Siebenberg, Kansas drummer, and I also think Camels drumer have single
bass pedal, gives them more job to do, more busy, and needs to do more
for compensate for lack of bass drum.
When I listen to "classic" progressive double-bass drummers like Giles
and Peart (I'm not aware of Bruford or C. Palmer using double bass
regularly in the 1970s), I mostly hear double-bass work in their fills -
Giles' sextuplets on "In the Court of the Crimson King," Peart's
running 16ths on "Best I Can" and lots of split tom/bass quad-rolls all
over the place, etc. Mason (one of my all-time favorite drummers, BTW)
is an interesting case; I've read interviews with him where he suggests
that he used double kicks because Ginger Baker was playing doubles and
that was the cool-looking thing to do at the time. His recorded
playing, understated and not incredibly virtuosic to begin with, doesn't
exactly reveal a lot of fleet-footed facility with the double
pedals...
I may be totally off base, but I don't think it was until metal stared
rearing its noisy head in the mid-late 70s (with Judas Priest,
Motorhead, et al) that double bass really started to make the transition
away from from "something cool to mix into fills" towards something
that was integrated into regular beats and ostinati.
The Pessimist wrote:
But then you look at drummers like Jojo Mayer, who can use a single pedal so fast it almost sounds like a double
Yeah, some guys have amazing feet... I was recently amazed to learn that Pierre Moerlen of Gong was a single-kick drummer; I always thought his running 16ths on "Master Builder" were double kicks...
I've often wondered exactly why Nick Mason bothered having 2 kick drums. The only time I can ever think of him using both kick is on Biding My TIme. No live recording I've heard has any double kick work either.
"Mason (one of my all-time favorite drummers, BTW)
is an interesting case; I've read interviews with him where he suggests
that he used double kicks because Ginger Baker was playing doubles and
that was the cool-looking thing to do at the time. His recorded
playing, understated and not incredibly virtuosic to begin with, doesn't
exactly reveal a lot of fleet-footed facility with the double
pedals..."
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
Posted: June 22 2011 at 04:58
There are many things that you can do with two pedals but which you could also do with a single pedal. But that doesn't mean that double pedals are useless. I'm a guitarist and keyboardist, and there are plenty of things which you could do with one finger instead of two on a keyboard, or which you could do with downstrokes instead of alternate picking on the guitar. You just wouldn't be as efficient, and it would always sound differently.
One good example is the "bridge" part of Beethoven's "Für Elise". The fast sequence of (identical) notes is to be played with two fingers alternatingly, but many skilled piano players could pull that part off using only one finger. That doesn't mean that it should be done.
Joined: July 26 2010
Location: Norway
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Points: 18
Posted: June 22 2011 at 05:24
Morgan Ågren is.. well, my favorite drummer. He pretty much always stomps the hi-hat with his left foot and he can do quite insane things with his right foot on the bass drum. Not so much about the constant double bass here, but about filling and general bass drum-action implemented in his playing.
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
Posted: June 23 2011 at 18:17
Single pedal time and time again. I hear so much annoying double bass work that makes up for a lack of creativity and chops. Obviously at the prog rock level none of the drummers have a severe lack of chops, but non the less I just find it annoying how much most people abuse double bass when they have it. To put it in terms prog fans can understand--Carl Palmer's drumming on Atomic RoOoster (before double bass) is SO much more soulful and creative than his ELP playing....which consists of constant double bass and rolls around the entire set.
Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
Posted: June 23 2011 at 18:19
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
There are many things that you can do with two pedals but which you could also do with a single pedal. But that doesn't mean that double pedals are useless. I'm a guitarist and keyboardist, and there are plenty of things which you could do with one finger instead of two on a keyboard, or which you could do with downstrokes instead of alternate picking on the guitar. You just wouldn't be as efficient, and it would always sound differently.
One good example is the "bridge" part of Beethoven's "Für Elise". The fast sequence of (identical) notes is to be played with two fingers alternatingly, but many skilled piano players could pull that part off using only one finger. That doesn't mean that it should be done.
That seems a bit backwards to me. By your logic I more so come to the conclusion of, if you can do it with one foot then leave your other foot on the high hat and be more efficient.
Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
Posted: June 24 2011 at 03:47
Maybe we simply have different definitions of "efficiency". In your example, if you need the other foot for the hi-hat then of course you need to look for a way to play fast stuff on the bass drum using only one foot. But when you play power metal style patterns, you don't need the foot for the hi-hat. In that case you're much more efficient using two feet for the bass drum. Endurance is also a concern ... maybe not when you play a single song, but when you play for two hours.
Like I said, I'm mainly a guitarist ... and there the analogy is downstrokes vs. alternate picking. I think that you're more efficient using alternate picking throughout than trying to pull off even the fastest lines with downstrokes only. "Efficiency" in this context to me means to use all the tools and techniques available to you so that any given piece of music becomes as easy to play as possible. Using one bass drum / pedal for double bass lines or using only downstrokes for alternate picking lines is IMO not efficient at all - it's a display of virtuosity, it's intentionally being less efficient for the sake of showing off.
When I was a straight up metal head there was only type of bass drumming that was acceptable, double bass, in barrages of 16th notes and lots of em!
Then I got very very sick of em
All just depends on the music being played. Since you seem to be talking about the prog side and not metal, I will say the only time I really can ever see double bass being appropriate is in fills/breaks or in some rhythms. To add a real extra touch. Maybe if a prog rock drummer really wanted to get crazy, use it some small bursts for some real intensity!
Speaking of great use of double bass, Mike I see you are liking Iconoclast
OK, he may be in a metal band but Jason Rullo is an awesome drummer and uses double bass well. Sometimes in the "machine gun" bursts but by doing so sparingly it really feels so intense! He mainly uses double bass in the rhythms (really well) and in crazy fills and breaks.
I think that their is different way playing drums like single bass,double bass and groove ,rock etc.Double bass drume is created energitic mucis in our body. Most of the dancers use double bass drum in his shows.
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single compared to double bass drum
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, and Niel Peart gets alot of work done becouse of they use double bass and to me that gives the music more intencity and less pauce
The Pessimist wrote:
,
and Niel Peart gets alot of work done becouse of they use double bass
and to me that gives the music more intencity and less pauce
