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JJLehto 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
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Points: 34550
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 Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:19 |
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Yeah real great genre they influenced too...why even bother when you can just listen to Genesis?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:21 |
 JJLehto wrote:
Yeah real great genre they influenced too...why even bother when you can just listen to Genesis?
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Why should I care for Death if each and every Death Metal band sound exact to my ears?
Iván
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The Neck Romancer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2010
Location: Brazil
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Points: 10185
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:23 |
Every Genesis fan sounds exactly the same to me.
Want some cheese with that whine?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:23 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
No.
No.
You keep talking about taste. You've yet to give the band any respect. I
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No I don't have to give them any respect, I don't find any difference between Death or Thrash or many other Metal sub-genres (Most likely my ignorance), so why should I respect what they did?
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erm because they did influence an entire genre of music. That's what I've been saying, sorry if I sound harsh but you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying. I was talking about respecting them for what they did because their influence was huge. Unless you just don't care because you don't like it. I honestly don't like "In the Court of the Crimson King" that much, it's boring. However, I respect it for its influence as it pretty much created prog rock as we know and all it's influence there. So is it clear? I was asking to respect them for the influence even if you don't like the result...if you can't do that then sorry but that's extremely closed minded.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:25 |
Polo wrote:
Every Genesis fan sounds exactly the same to me.
Want some cheese with that whine? |
Do you want to take it to a personal level?
I never said a word about Metal fans.
Iván
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The Neck Romancer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2010
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 10185
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:25 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Polo wrote:
Every Genesis fan sounds exactly the same to me.
Want some cheese with that whine? |
Do you want to take it to a personal level?
I never said a word about Metal fans.
Iván |
No, but you said every DM song was the same. Sounds like an insult to the genre to me.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:27 |
JJLehto wrote:
erm because they did influence an entire genre of music. That's what I've been saying, sorry if I sound harsh but you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying.
I was talking about respecting them for what they did because their influence was huge. Unless you just don't care because you don't like it.
I honestly don't like "In the Court of the Crimson King" that much, it's boring. However, I respect it for its influence as it pretty much created prog rock as we know and all it's influence there.
So is it clear? I was asking to respect them for the influence even if you don't like the result...if you can't do that then sorry but that's extremely closed minded.
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Please understand me: - IMO Death Metal is noise
- Why should I respet the inventors of a different level of noise?
I don't care about their influence, because I simply don't care for Death Metal.
As simple as that
Iván
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Garden of Dreams
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 336
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:29 |
JJLehto wrote:
No.
No.
You keep talking about taste. You've yet to give the band any respect. I don't give a frogs piss about taste, we all have our own and are entitled to it. You just seemed to disregard what Death did for metal, a huge genre. To be fair you still are, you keep going on about taste...what some of us were trying to say is the band had a huge influence on metal. Respect them for that is all, as a fan of music. There is nothing wrong with it all Ivan, but that is useless to the discussion, your personal taste has nothing to do with it. Sensitive? Erm, you are clearly not familiar with my posting style are you? 
How influential was Genesis on prog rock? They were big yeah but what did they do unique or innovative? Before people get into a fan storm...I like their music a lot. Just don't see them as having much real impact on prog rock, other than the fact they were a big name.
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Genesis were actually very influential on prog rock.
Just some bands: Big Big Train, The Flower Kings, IQ, Karmakanic, Marillion, Neal Morse, Phideaux, Rush, Simon Says, Spock's Beard, Transatlantic. A lot of those bands play symphonic prog but they are some of the most popular current prog bands.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:29 |
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LOL GENESIS IS SO BAD
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:32 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
erm because they did influence an entire genre of music. That's what I've been saying, sorry if I sound harsh but you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying.
I was talking about respecting them for what they did because their influence was huge. Unless you just don't care because you don't like it.
I honestly don't like "In the Court of the Crimson King" that much, it's boring. However, I respect it for its influence as it pretty much created prog rock as we know and all it's influence there.
So is it clear? I was asking to respect them for the influence even if you don't like the result...if you can't do that then sorry but that's extremely closed minded.
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Please understand me: - IMO Death Metal is noise
- Why should I respet the inventors of a different level of noise?
I don't care about their influence, because I simply don't care for Death Metal.
As simple as that
Iván |
Well OK, simple as this then: I think you are a very close minded person, musically at least. Sad that you can't even respect a band for its influence on a wide swath of music just because you don't like it.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 18016
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:33 |
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Also sad that you use "without Genesis there would be no Marillion" as an argument, as if that would be a bad thing.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:35 |
JJLehto wrote:
I think you are a very close minded person, musically at least.
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ITT: revelations abound.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:36 |
stonebeard wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
I think you are a very close minded person, musically at least.
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ITT: revelations abound.
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ITT: Stonie is not really that cool edgy guy inb4 come at me bro u mad u jelly w/e other meme you'll use to hide behind
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Terria
Status: Offline
Points: 13298
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:38 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
LOL GENESIS IS SO BAD
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now Ivan is getting really angry.
Ok here goes my neutral two cents:
1. Genesis is a big influential Symphonic Prog band, but they did not create a genre 2. Death is a big influential Death Metal band, a genre they themselves created
Both are amazing. HOWEVER, Death has a slight upper hand BECAUSE they CREATED a GENRE. Whether you like them or not, you must at least accept the fact that they were quite the creative group.
Of course that goes without saying that Genesis was creative as well, crafting some of the best music of the 70s, HOWEVER, they went with the flow, and although they did progress the sound of symphonic prog, they did not create it. The were a group of some of the best songwriters ever, but they wrote in it's most raw form the same stuff that many other bands in their era made.
Death, on the other hand, made an album and then an explosion of bands occur ed trying to be them because they were so mind-blowingly creative. Whether what they were copying was noise or not is arbitrary because they CREATED a massive subgenre of metal.
Yea.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:46 |
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:55 |
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ITT: LOL NEOPROG FANS
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:59 |
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Please go on. I've never heard this before.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:04 |
Lets go point by point: 1.- Close Minded:
JJLehto wrote:
Well OK, simple as this then:
I think you are a very close minded person, musically at least.
Sad that you can't even respect a band for its influence on a wide swath of music just because you don't like it. |
Not close minded, I just have a different understanding of music than you, that's all, there are hundreds of genres some I like, others not, I don't consider Death Metal one of them, that's my opinion.
Taste has nothing to do, I don't like Gentle Giant neither VDGG but I respect them because IN MY OPINION they make coherent, and original music with virtuoso musicians and in the case of the second with outstanding lyrics
Now this is closed minded:
JJLehto wrote:
Yeah real great genre they influenced too...why even bother when you can just listen to Genesis? |
You are making derogatory comments about the quality of Neo Prog, I clearly said that I don't say if Death Metal is good or bad because taste is subjective
2.- About Marillion.
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Also sad that you use "without Genesis there would be no Marillion" as an argument, as if that would be a bad thing. |
I never mentioned Marillion, I believe that with or without Genesis Marillion would had existed, the personality of Fish and talent of all the members couldn't be stopped[QUOTE=Polo] [QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]
, probably they would sound different, (because there's a Genesis influence), but they would had still existed.
My browser is giving problems, so I follow in the next post.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 15 2011 at 23:11
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:06 |
Polo wrote:
Every Genesis fan sounds exactly the same to me.
Polo wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
[QUOTE=Polo]Every Genesis fan sounds exactly the same to me.
Want some cheese with that whine? |
Do you want to take it to a personal level?
I never said a word about Metal fans.
Iván |
No, but you said every DM song was the same. Sounds like an insult to the genre to me. |
I sad what I THINK about Death Metal, I also said I don't know if it's bad or good, I don't dare to do that, because taste is personal.
I took good care to say I have respect for Metal listeners
But you are making personal attacks, that's different
Iván
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Terria
Status: Offline
Points: 13298
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:06 |
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(Ivan. Hey buddy, it's Andy. Let me give you a hint. Give up, you'll just tire yourself out with these guys. They're relentless).
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Genesis vs. Death
