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Topic ClosedWhy isn't prog popular?

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Alitare View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 20:05
Originally posted by Slaughternalia Slaughternalia wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

I think the elaborate nature of prog is too "out-there" compared to what most people usually grow up listening to. Most people seem to want to listen to quick, catchy tunes that are for the sake of fun rather than interesting and elaborate artworks. 

Fortunately, some of the modern bands like Coheed & Cambria and Porcupine Tree blend the elaborate songwriting with the modern pop sensibilities and it doesn't sound bad. 

Why do 'interesting and elaborate artworks' have to not be quick, catchy, or fun? I want to make two minute prog epics. I want sweeping, overblown, monolithic, expansive, complex, technical, intricate, but catchy, melodic, and beautiful songs, none over two minutes.
I'm sure you do

Is there something wrong with that? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:11
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by Slaughternalia Slaughternalia wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

I think the elaborate nature of prog is too "out-there" compared to what most people usually grow up listening to. Most people seem to want to listen to quick, catchy tunes that are for the sake of fun rather than interesting and elaborate artworks. 

Fortunately, some of the modern bands like Coheed & Cambria and Porcupine Tree blend the elaborate songwriting with the modern pop sensibilities and it doesn't sound bad. 

Why do 'interesting and elaborate artworks' have to not be quick, catchy, or fun? I want to make two minute prog epics. I want sweeping, overblown, monolithic, expansive, complex, technical, intricate, but catchy, melodic, and beautiful songs, none over two minutes.
I'm sure you do

Is there something wrong with that? 


Is not possible to make "two minutes prog epics", but I understood what you meant!
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
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Alitare View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:19
Yes it is, if you open your mind to it. I want massive shifts and dynamics and epic feelings and deep swayings...in two minutes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:29
^So, good luck searching! If you find, tell us!
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:56
^^^ Not TWO minutes, but if we stretch it to four minutes - the average length of a pop/rock song since about the 70s - we get Boys in the Band, Trees, Sat in Your Lap, Clocks, Supertwister, In this Quiet Earth to name a few.  These may not tick all of Alitaire's boxes - as if those are that important anyway - but if the point is to compress prog intrigue into pop 'lengths', it's definitely possible.  Oh, come to think of it, even ABBA's Intermezzo No.1 (and hear it PROPERLY before you go ABBA LOLZZ).  That is, there is no reason why every prog rock song has to be 15-20 minute sprawl, which I guess is his point.
 
EDIT: Oh, and completely forgot about Sparks! Almost the entire Kimono My House and Propoganda albums could qualify  - appealing pop/rock songs but with lots of changes compressed into 3-4 minute lengths (or, what Queen would sound like with some editing and quality control). Well, I said I only named a few anyway. Tongue


Edited by rogerthat - June 16 2011 at 00:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 01:23
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Yes it is, if you open your mind to it. I want massive shifts and dynamics and epic feelings and deep swayings...in two minutes.

That is more or less your average Cardiacs song... no joke
There be dragons
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 02:16
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Yes it is, if you open your mind to it. I want massive shifts and dynamics and epic feelings and deep swayings...in two minutes.

That is more or less your average Cardiacs song... no joke


Haha. Good joke.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 02:22

Angry
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Yes it is, if you open your mind to it. I want massive shifts and dynamics and epic feelings and deep swayings...in two minutes.

That is more or less your average Cardiacs song... no joke


Haha. Good joke.

But I just said it wasn't a joke... wait... NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!Angry Angry 








Sleepy





















Angry 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2011 at 11:53
I still think it's for a huge part that it is not catchy. On my party I played on of my prog cd's. (dumpest thing you can do on a party) Right away a few people walked to my and asked if I had some REAL music. I said listen to de music, feel the music, try to understand it. "we don't have time for that' they anweserd, 'it sound more like a orchestra then a band'! Just becaus songs are longer then 4 minutes they are not a band? I didn't get it!

I think that most people just want to listen to catchy and poplular songs. But their is no feeling in that kind of music. Everyone can play, lets say sex on fire, thats not art. Art is something NOT anyone can copy. Art is something not everyone is capable of. And yet, they call kings of leon music art. We live in a strange world...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2011 at 13:01
Prog music is a culture, a musical genre for the open mind.  Prog lyrics tell a story.  It's like watching a live play and getting involved with the characters.  Some of my friends would never sit through a play with me, they think plays are boring and nerdy.  They think I'm weird cos I listen to "Nursery Cryme" by Genesis.  I think they're weird cos they listen to gangster rap like, "yo let's rape us some biatches and shoot some homies, yo" Confused 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2011 at 23:00
Originally posted by DaniMoon DaniMoon wrote:

Prog music is a culture, a musical genre for the open mind.  Prog lyrics tell a story.  It's like watching a live play and getting involved with the characters.  Some of my friends would never sit through a play with me, they think plays are boring and nerdy.  They think I'm weird cos I listen to "Nursery Cryme" by Genesis.  I think they're weird cos they listen to gangster rap like, "yo let's rape us some biatches and shoot some homies, yo" Confused 


I hate plays - they seem to be the worst of both words:

-It's got visualizations, like films, but not as defined or pronounced, as well the actors are typically of lesser stature
-It's plot and word oriented, like literature, but you don't get the imagination like you would from a book, so:

Less imaginative room than books, less visually appealing material than films = I don't give a sh*t.



But about prog? Well, if you think ALL prog rock is deeper than ALL any other genre, I feel for you, because the day Rush's (or Led Zeppelin's, or Yes', or Uriah Heep's, or Styx's, or Kansas') lyrics start getting precedence over Dylan, Cohen, Waits, or Oldham, I'm slitting my throat. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2011 at 05:44
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by DaniMoon DaniMoon wrote:

Prog music is a culture, a musical genre for the open mind.  Prog lyrics tell a story.  It's like watching a live play and getting involved with the characters.  Some of my friends would never sit through a play with me, they think plays are boring and nerdy.  They think I'm weird cos I listen to "Nursery Cryme" by Genesis.  I think they're weird cos they listen to gangster rap like, "yo let's rape us some biatches and shoot some homies, yo" Confused 


I hate plays - they seem to be the worst of both words:

-It's got visualizations, like films, but not as defined or pronounced, as well the actors are typically of lesser stature
-It's plot and word oriented, like literature, but you don't get the imagination like you would from a book, so:

Less imaginative room than books, less visually appealing material than films = I don't give a sh*t.



But about prog? Well, if you think ALL prog rock is deeper than ALL any other genre, I feel for you, because the day Rush's (or Led Zeppelin's, or Yes', or Uriah Heep's, or Styx's, or Kansas') lyrics start getting precedence over Dylan, Cohen, Waits, or Oldham, I'm slitting my throat. 


Agree with the sentiment (but maybe not the presentation Wink)
I too have long held the belief that
prog is intellectual = spurious drivel
most prog lyrics = romantic hippy poetry

There is more textual complexity in the lyrics of  Stan Ridgway, Bob Dylan, Tom Verlaine, Lou Reed, Lloyd Cole, Robert Forster (the list goes on) than there are hairs on Peter Sinfield's chinny chin chin


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 22 2011 at 08:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2011 at 11:05
While I agree with Alitaire's sentiments, I do not see the point in sh*tting on people who are enthusiastic about prog, provided that they do not think that the lyrics are the deepest thing evar, and that prog stands above all other forms of music.

I say this in part because while I recognize that the vast majority of prog is plagued by lyrics that range from bad to meh, there is great value in the music and I do think that from a strictly musical perspective prog as a whole is among the more interesting forms of music.

For a non-lyrically concerned listener, while Oldham's music, for instance, has an immediate beauty that beauty plays a more cathartic or therapeutic role that allows the listener to lose oneself in. Whereas a good chunk of prog cannot play this role, because of its musical structure, and thus must be appreciated not simply as a means of catharsis but as something that requires active listening, rather than passive therapeutic listening.

I think that one reason for prog's lack of popularity is its inability to be used as a means towards immediate catharsis.

If I am stressed and just want a release I am going to put on some Sparklehorse, Nick Drake, Red House Painters, or Dead Can Dance rather than Henry Cow or Magma......

Of course there is some prog that can play that cathartic role but it seems that it is the minority rather than the majority.


Edited by QuestionableScum - June 22 2011 at 11:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2011 at 15:27
I've personally always found Bob Dylan's lyrics pretentious and...I don't know, fake? There are a couple amazing lyricists in prog, though - anyone who hasn't heard Geoff Mann's Second Chants should do so. 

Quote If I am stressed and just want a release I am going to put on some Sparklehorse, Nick Drake, Red House Painters, or Dead Can Dance rather than Henry Cow or Magma......

Henry Cow is plenty comforting - for those who see the whole "must sound modern!" aesthetic as vaguely artsy. Clap


Edited by 1791 Overture - June 22 2011 at 15:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2011 at 00:02
Well record companies have a hard time marketing progressive bands because most people today don't have the patience to listen to lengthier pieces. Most people, especially young people, want just short, quick songs that also are heavy. Most progressive bands are melodic and are for listening to not just backround noise at a party. Most of popular music these days has to be either over-produced or overtly heavy to get over these days which is not the case with most progressive bands. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2011 at 11:37
Originally posted by DaniMoon DaniMoon wrote:

Prog music is a culture, a musical genre for the open mind.  Prog lyrics tell a story.  It's like watching a live play and getting involved with the characters.  Some of my friends would never sit through a play with me, they think plays are boring and nerdy.  They think I'm weird cos I listen to "Nursery Cryme" by Genesis.  I think they're weird cos they listen to gangster rap like, "yo let's rape us some biatches and shoot some homies, yo" Confused 

It is they who are weird. You are normalBig smile
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2011 at 13:59
How about "Jugband Blues" by Pink Floyd? It's not two minutes (it about 2:59 in length) but it's a good starting point.
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2011 at 04:41
Why does it matter that it's not popular? As long as you like it, that's fine. That would be true even if you were the only fan Prog had.
 
Popularity tends to coincide with bland or easy listening, the same kind of reason that politicians thrive. On the other side of the coin, although there is a lot of excellence in Prog, it also attracts the bizarre, eccentric, obscure and outlandish under the same banner.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2011 at 15:19
is not popular because is not fast food music is very complicated and most people dont find it simply apeticing they mostly go for repetitive good for the ear simple sound that it will go forgotten the next day,,it's better this ways that only true lovers get to listen to it
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2011 at 15:26
Originally posted by porcupinethree porcupinethree wrote:

is not popular because is not fast food music is very complicated and most people dont find it simply apeticing they mostly go for repetitive good for the ear simple sound that it will go forgotten the next day,,it's better this ways that only true lovers get to listen to it
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