Emulating Classic Prog Is Not Prog

But it sure beats the hell out of the tripe being produced today!

frippism wrote: esky wrote: But it sure beats the hell out of the tripe being produced today! THESE COMMENTS MAKE ME SO MADDDDD *RIPS SHIRT!*!!!!  No offence but if you say stuff like that it means that you haven't explored new music enough. I will say this out loud: THERE IS SO MUCH MUSIC TODAY THAT IS EVEN MORE PROGRESSIVE AND WEIRD THAN THERE HAS BEEN IN THE 70s. You really just have to do a bit more searching. The mainstream is crap, it's always been crap, and will always be crap. Go and search for new music now.

cstack3 wrote: frippism wrote: esky wrote: But it sure beats the hell out of the tripe being produced today! THESE COMMENTS MAKE ME SO MADDDDD *RIPS SHIRT!*!!!!  No offence but if you say stuff like that it means that you haven't explored new music enough. I will say this out loud: THERE IS SO MUCH MUSIC TODAY THAT IS EVEN MORE PROGRESSIVE AND WEIRD THAN THERE HAS BEEN IN THE 70s. You really just have to do a bit more searching. The mainstream is crap, it's always been crap, and will always be crap. Go and search for new music now.  Quantity does not trump quality.  I see no modern day equivalent of 1970's era Bob Fripp, Steve Howe or Steve Hackett out there, no matter how hard I search.   There are some fine efforts for sure, but the musicianship is lacking.  I don't think the newest generations of musicians have the classical training & discipline of their elders.   Just thinkin'.

I don't think it would be fair to look for an 'equivalent' in the sense a new great doesn't have to and should not have to tread over the same ground as Fripp. In terms of inventiveness, I don't know if I could bracket Bela Fleck and Prasanna with Fripp because I am not a guitarist but they are two 'guitarists' who have made a weighty contribution in the last 20 years.  But they again operate in a fusion/jr set up....within something purely compositional, I have not heard anything as impressive as the 70s masterpieces at least from within what is commonly called prog.  As I addressed in my earlier post, composition/songwriting doesn't seem to be considered very important in rock-related music anymore.  

rogerthat wrote: I don't think it would be fair to look for an 'equivalent' in the sense a new great doesn't have to and should not have to tread over the same ground as Fripp. In terms of inventiveness, I don't know if I could bracket Bela Fleck and Prasanna with Fripp because I am not a guitarist but they are two 'guitarists' who have made a weighty contribution in the last 20 years.  But they again operate in a fusion/jr set up....within something purely compositional, I have not heard anything as impressive as the 70s masterpieces at least from within what is commonly called prog.  As I addressed in my earlier post, composition/songwriting doesn't seem to be considered very important in rock-related music anymore.

I agree with you here.  I think after reading your last few posts, the only area we don't agree on is that I think Progressive Rock is genre and you don't.  This site is the best argument I have at the moment, along with the fact that a number of bands identify their music as Progressive Rock.  I don't really think it's worth discussing though, since the "what is Prog?" discussion has been done so many times on this forum (and many others) without any definitive resolution, that it's really just a matter of opinion at this point.

The only other thing I would say is that I find in certain cases that bands writing within the 70's prog framework certainly can and do have their own voice.  Obviously not all of them, of course.  I have my own line I draw for that, which comes down to the same thing you have basically said, that if it moves me or resonates with me, it works for me.  I do like compositions in certain styles, and am not terribly bothered by it.  However, if it seems more like a mechanical exercise to me, insincere if you will, then it isn't going to do anything for me.  This is obviously a highly personal observation, so it really comes down to opinion just like with all music.

Most of us here are on the fringe of music listening anyway, as most people don't care at all about composition, originality, uniqueness, or even genuine passion in the music they listen to...........they don't even really "listen" in the way that we do, for that matter.

I disagree. Some bands, like Harmonium, practically forged sub-genres of their own. It would be nice to see new bands "emulating" unique styles played by long gone bands. If done right, it would be the best form of flattery.

rogerthat wrote: I don't think it would be fair to look for an 'equivalent' in the sense a new great doesn't have to and should not have to tread over the same ground as Fripp. In terms of inventiveness, I don't know if I could bracket Bela Fleck and Prasanna with Fripp because I am not a guitarist but they are two 'guitarists' who have made a weighty contribution in the last 20 years.  But they again operate in a fusion/jr set up....within something purely compositional, I have not heard anything as impressive as the 70s masterpieces at least from within what is commonly called prog.  As I addressed in my earlier post, composition/songwriting doesn't seem to be considered very important in rock-related music anymore.

Edited by frippism - June 09 2011 at 15:23

If I were able to emulate Hackett, Howe or Fripp I'd be more than happy. Would I be not prog? Who cares.

cstack3 wrote:   Name one equivalent of Robert Fripp.  I've known many who could play Hackett and Howe note-for-note, but have yet to meet Fripp's equivalent.   Realize that I know Fripp from the Discipline era, and was bassist to one of Fripp's earliest guitar-craft students, Lon Jones, and his band "CAVU".

frippism wrote: cstack3 wrote:   Name one equivalent of Robert Fripp.  I've known many who could play Hackett and Howe note-for-note, but have yet to meet Fripp's equivalent.   Realize that I know Fripp from the Discipline era, and was bassist to one of Fripp's earliest guitar-craft students, Lon Jones, and his band "CAVU".   I don't think it's really a question of being equivalent to Robert Fripp. If you're thinking equivalent in a technical matter, it isn't really easy to compare because of the variety of music, and the fact that most musicians would rather not play something note by note by Fripp. Do I know of someone who could? Probably a few. I think Ian Williams (ex-guitar player for pioneering math rock band Don Caballero) could definitely handle the crazy shifts in time signatures and the manic arpeggios of the Discipline era.  I feel bad writing this. Fripp is one of my idols, but I don't think though I would ever enjoy sounding like him. It's impossible to compare musicianship just from people who have the technical ability to emulate Fripp, though there's a few if not many who could do it. And that's really not an insult to Fripp, it's just a fact that many many people are technically very talented.

sigod wrote: I quite like Prog Rock. We should put together a forum where we can all gather together and disagree vehemently over the details in the hope that one day, we'll all have exactly the same opinion.

just brilliant