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cannon View Drop Down
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Points: 1302 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1972. Progressive Metal? Huh!
    Posted: June 04 2011 at 01:42
I'm a totally confused here in regards to progressive metal? Didn't prog/metal emerge in the mid/late '80's with Queensryche and Fates Warning really defining and putting the sub-genre on the musical map with a few other less notable artists who had less impact than those two mentioned.
 
Can a band from 1972 be given the label of prog/metal?
 
The band in question is Night Sun and is listed here in the PA.
 
 
I've seen the band tagged as proto-metal, progressive rock, heavy prog, hard rock, heavy psych and even Krautrock, but prog/metal(?).
 
In your opinion should/could this artist be given the tag of progressive metal?
 
IMHO, no.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 01:49
But they are not included as Prog Metal, so I fail to see the reason for asking. They are here as Heavy Prog. 
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Points: 13 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 01:50

Progressive metal (sometimes known as prog metal) is a subgenre of heavy metal, which blends the powerful, guitar-driven sound of metal with the complex compositional structures, odd time signatures, diverse fantasy lyrics and intricate instrumental playing of progressive rock. Many progressive metal bands are also influenced by jazz fusion and classical music. Like progressive rock songs, progressive metal songs are typically much longer than standard metal songs, and are often thematically linked in concept albums.

The mixing of the progressive rock and heavy metal styles can be traced back to the late 1960s and early 1970s. One of England's heaviest progressive rock bands,[1] High Tide, fused the elements of "metal progenitors such as Cream, Blue Cheer, and the Jeff Beck Group" into their sound.[2] Other bands such as King Crimson and Rush were also incorporating metal into their music,[3][4] as well as Uriah Heep, whose "by-the-books progressive heavy metal made the British band one of the most popular hard rock groups of the early '70s".[5] Rush songs such as "Bastille Day", "Anthem", "By-Tor and Snow Dog", "2112", "The Fountain of Lamneth" and "Something for Nothing" have been cited as some of the earliest examples of progressive metal.[6] Another early practitioner of progressive rock and heavy metal were Lucifer's Friend.[7] However, progressive metal did not develop into a genre of its own until the mid-1980s
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cannon View Drop Down
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Points: 1302 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 01:54
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

But they are not included as Prog Metal, so I fail to see the reason for asking. They are here as Heavy Prog. 
 
Another site listed them under prog/metal.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:00
You should ask them why they did it.

Your assesment is correct; the band is probably a band that's both progressive and classic heavy metal. That doesn't make it prog-metal indeed, prog metal being a particular historic style/movement.
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cannon View Drop Down
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Points: 1302 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:14
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

You should ask them why they did it.

Your assesment is correct; the band is probably a band that's both progressive and classic heavy metal. That doesn't make it prog-metal indeed, prog metal being a particular historic style/movement.
 
To put the band in context in relation to other artists I would describe Night Sun as a combination of Black Sabbath and Deep Purple and throw in some Uriah Heep and Atomic Rooster. Progressive and heavy metal, but like you stated and IMHO not being prog/metal as what I know the defination of prog/metal is.
 
Maybe I will ask. I just wanted to here other opinions in case I was way off in left field with my finger up my azz.Wink
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:24
You probably haven't seen my post on MMA yet, but as Jonas pointed out there the bio for the band (probably lifted from wiki or last.fm, I haven't looked at it yet) mentions two bands.  Chances are there is the heavy prog and/or proto-metal band from the early 70s, and another later band, playing prog metal, with the same name.  In this case, as we are talking about MMA, there will need to be a separate entry for each band.

Sorting things like that can be an absolute bitch, my friend Christian who works on the death metal and grindcore subs on MMA often has cases where there are 5-10 bands with the same name.


Edited by Triceratopsoil - June 04 2011 at 02:26
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:30
^ I noticed that too on MMA. If that's the website we're talking about, it's surely an issue of importing the correct artist from Musicbrainz. 
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 20:09
First album that was progressive and metal (not progressive metal).




Edited by Eärendil - June 05 2011 at 12:47
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Points: 7264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 00:34
Hmmm....I'd argue that the late, great Captain Beyond would qualify as "Progressive Metal, ca. 1972"


PA simply characterizes them as "heavy prog," which of course they are...however, I'd argue that they also had critical elements of prog metal as well. 

Any takers?  
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Points: 27958 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 01:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0JrV86EKCs
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Points: 20239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 02:25
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

You probably haven't seen my post on MMA yet, but as Jonas pointed out there the bio for the band (probably lifted from wiki or last.fm, I haven't looked at it yet) mentions two bands.  Chances are there is the heavy prog and/or proto-metal band from the early 70s, and another later band, playing prog metal, with the same name.  In this case, as we are talking about MMA, there will need to be a separate entry for each band.

Sorting things like that can be an absolute bitch, my friend Christian who works on the death metal and grindcore subs on MMA often has cases where there are 5-10 bands with the same name.
Yeah, I agree that it can be a real bitch of a system, especially with the album tagging choices, which is the reason why a band might be classed in such or such genre
 
But it's clear that an album with a date of 1972 cannot be tagged as progmetal
 
As for the other band called night sun, it's a folk band from Canada... Anyway, a situation  to be remedied to ASAP Wink
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cannon View Drop Down
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Points: 1302 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 15:05
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Hmmm....I'd argue that the late, great Captain Beyond would qualify as "Progressive Metal, ca. 1972"


PA simply characterizes them as "heavy prog," which of course they are...however, I'd argue that they also had critical elements of prog metal as well. 

Any takers?  
 
I've seen Captain Beyond tagged as proto-metal, heavy psych, hard rock, progressive rock and heavy prog here at PA.
 
So if place proto-metal and progressive rock together you have prog metal. Sure, but going by the definition of prog metal here at PA and some other descriptions I've read elsewhere they don't qualify by strictly the date. Progressive metal is no question a good description of Captain Beyond generally without taking into account the actual description of progressive metal.
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 20:48
Heavy prog is where the beloved Captain Beyond belong.
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cannon View Drop Down
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Points: 1302 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 22:22
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Heavy prog is where the beloved Captain Beyond belong.
 
Beer Here at PA no doubt about it.
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Points: 7264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2011 at 14:37
Originally posted by cannon cannon wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Heavy prog is where the beloved Captain Beyond belong.
 
Beer Here at PA no doubt about it.

OK, having read up on it at PA, I'll agree with that! Handshake

Captain Beyond was the first band I ever saw in a large concert venue, backing up Alice Cooper during the "School's Out" tour.  (July 28, 1972).  

Needless to say, I never went back! 

Some of AC's material fits into "heavy prog," such as "Halo of Flies."  It was an amazing band.  
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