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The T 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
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 Posted: May 28 2011 at 17:24 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I just came in here to say RON PAUL RON RAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL.
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my guess is you'd be spitting on him too after three years |
My guess is absolutely not. If he were to be corrupted, it would have taken place already probably. The man hasn't cast a wrong vote as a Congressman yet. |
If he were to deviate from his principles, yes we would spit on him. But so far as Pat mentions that hasn't happened. Why would it start when he's so old?
f**k the office of the president of any country. They're just glorified administrators given too much power...
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cannon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 03 2010
Location: Coho Country
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Points: 1302
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 17:39 |
Proletariat wrote:
cannon wrote:
Proletariat wrote:
Until we have a viable third party no election will matter in the slightest. the dems and reps have entrenched themselves so deeply into the fabric of our laws and culture that we are blinded to the fact that neither adiquately represents anyone. The major points of contention in the primaries is simply who will best pull the party line and the race itself comes down to who is nicer.
Sure politics in countries with many parities and coalitions can be messy but it does provide for a better representation of the public, wich is a necessity in any democracy or republic. |
Do you think there is room for a third party in the US?
Here in Canada we have three major national parties though one of them took a beating in the last election. We have a green party which finally won thier first seat in parliament though thier vote% went down. The separatist party from Quebec went from 50 some seats to 2 and lost its official party status. Quebec has been holding the rest of the country hostage for 50 years. Maybe separatism has finally eroded.
From what I've seen in US politics is that in both presidential primaries both parties run on policies that appeal to thier base but when it comes down to the general election both move to the center to try and capture the independent voters. With that it seems like there is no room for a new party to come up the middle(?).
I shouldn't have written off Ron Paul. He might be the man to straighten out the ship with some of his policies. Some are very common sence well others seem radical IMO. |
I dont know how it is in canada but in the US the two major parites get to use government $ to pay for their campaigns and get a bunch of other benefits written into the law. The major problem is that the parties platforms are basically the same. While there is some differences the parties are really very scimilar. Look at Obama and Bush, their policies on almost every issue are shockingly similar. The differences between the parties have more to do with their stances on issues of morality (gay marriage, abortion etc.) than on anything to do with hard politics. We need a couple of radical parties to shake things up. Ideally there would either be no parties at all but in anycase having many options is better than two options that are almost alike.
Also both parties function mainly to promote the continuation of the two party system, they have us so brain washed that even when the majority is fed up with both candidates we choose "the lesser of two evils" and don't even think of electing a third party.
atleast in canida the quebecois can even contemplate sepretism, in the US our states rights have eroded to the point where anyone who even mentions the subject would be considered insane and down right criminal, witch is rediculous as the USA was founded on seperatism and several of our states have been independant nations in the past. |
Here in Canada we have the Official Party Status both on the federal level as well as provincially. On the federal level a party needs 12 seats to have that recognition to be able to have funding. So with that the Quebec separatist party, The Bloc Quebecois has lost its federal funding with only 2 seats. Will that be the end of the separatist movement in Quebec? It will probably rise again as it seems to be a trend over the last 50 years.
Our last election which was May 13th. saw the Conservative party win a majority as they had been in minority for the last 5 years. Our Conservative party was almost extint some 20 years ago as it was deomolished in 1993 and only got 2 seats. The party dissolved and then united with the Canadian Alliance(formerly the Reform Party of Canada) party to become the Conservative party of Canada.
The Liberal party has been basically our ruling government here for decades but in the last election won only 34 seats and are now in the rebuiling mode as was the Conservative party 10 years ago. So at least here in Canada there is the oppurtunity for a party to organise and rise to power ina relative short time.
Basically in Quebec it was a protest vote against the separatist party as the New Deomcrat Party(NDP) won the most seats in Quebec which one would of never thought to be case as now they(NDP) are our official opposition. Once known as a socialist party but they have come more center.
That is one of the biggest differences I see between your two parties is that of thier religious and moral views. The GOP being very conservative(not like our Conservative party) and dominated by the evangelical christians and thier beliefs and intolerances. Religion is almost irrelevent here in Canadian politics. The other main difference I see is that of fiscal responsibility, generally.
I think Washington is much more lobby dominated than our national capital, Ottawa. Big money has a lot more power there than it does here.
Anyway, basically alot of decisions made in Washington effect us here in Canada as we're the biggest trading partners in the world (China will change that in short time).
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Points: 65616
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 17:44 |
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 17:55 |
I would have really had doubts about coming to live in the US if all you could eat here was sauerkraut... 
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 17:57 |
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On a more serious note, candidates start comprimising much earlier, way before they even reach the oval office. Power corrupts, yes, and the expectancy of power corrupts too. Paul hasn't compromised, that's why, probably, he'll never be president.
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 17:59 |
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Well then there you have it-- no compromise, no movement forward
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The T
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 18:03 |
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I'm not sure what of what has happened lately qualifies as movement forward...
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 18:47 |
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 Time always wins.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 18:55 |
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bunch of clowns are going to waste a bunch of money campaigning (lying) to unseat a clown who told a bunch of lies(campaigning)which he has never fulfilled. To take the nobel peace prize was the height of arrogance. There is not anyone who can convince me that the leadership of America has not devolved to clowns. The wives are clownesses. The present first lady wants to tell America how to eat right. We don't all have chefs and a carte blanche pantry at home. Bozo would be proud.
Edited by timothy leary - May 28 2011 at 18:56
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The T
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:04 |
It's sad when even voters have accepted the fact that to be a successful politician one has to compromise one's principles.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:08 |
manofmystery wrote:
The ideals of liberty do not need to be compromised. A president is meant to defend the liberties granted by the constitution. It's a cut and dry job. Being "in charge" of the United States has nothing to do with bending to the whim of majority or minority but denying each power to protect the rights of both. |
in other words a kind of compromise
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manofmystery
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Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
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Points: 4335
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:37 |
Atavachron wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
The ideals of liberty do not need to be compromised. A president is meant to defend the liberties granted by the constitution. It's a cut and dry job. Being "in charge" of the United States has nothing to do with bending to the whim of majority or minority but denying each power to protect the rights of both. |
in other words a kind of compromise
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Actually, it's the opposite.
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Time always wins.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:44 |
Atavachron wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I just came in here to say RON PAUL RON RAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL.
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my guess is you'd be spitting on him too after three years |
My guess is absolutely not. If he were to be corrupted, it would have taken place already probably. The man hasn't cast a wrong vote as a Congressman yet. |
If he were to deviate from his principles, yes we would spit on him. But so far as Pat mentions that hasn't happened. Why would it start when he's so old?
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But isn't part of being president compromising some of one's ideals so that you can effectively govern a country as huge and diverse as the US? It's not a matter of age, or of principles for that matter, but rather leadership and good judgment that makes an effective American President. We might all be eating German food right now if Roosevelt and Eisenhower had not been so good at building coalitions and rejecting the Pax Americana that so many of his (and Kennedy's) generals wanted in Europe. Ideals are wonderful things until you actually are in charge, then the reality of governance begins to sink in and you have to consider all perspectives or risk losing the whole thing. That's what being in charge is, and it's no love fest.
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I'm sure the Japanese and Americans who looked Japanese were very happy with how "effective" Truman and FDR were.
Yeah no. The idea isn't to compromise. The idea isn't even to govern. The idea is to do as little as possible. That's the express duty of the President.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65616
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:48 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Yeah no. The idea isn't to compromise. The idea isn't even to govern. The idea is to do as little as possible. That's the express duty of the President. |
so you would elect Ron Paul to do as little as possible
Edited by Atavachron - May 28 2011 at 19:48
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:51 |
Atavachron wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Yeah no. The idea isn't to compromise. The idea isn't even to govern. The idea is to do as little as possible. That's the express duty of the President. |
so you would elect Ron Paul to do as little as possible
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I would elect to him correct the actions of Presidents who did not do as little as possible. Once he undoes what others have done in place of doing as little as possible, Ron could then return to being an inconsequential piece of the political machine as the president is supposed to be.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65616
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:56 |
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I see.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 19:59 |
You indignant responses are quite strange given that my opinion of the presidency is clearly expressed in the Constitution.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65616
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 20:04 |
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Indignant? 'I see' is indignant? Seems to me you're calling the kettle black ;
in·dig·nant adj
angry or annoyed at the unfairness or unreasonableness of somebody or something
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 20:09 |
Your responses certainly seemed to be indicating annoyance to me. I see isn't a typical response.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65616
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Posted: May 28 2011 at 20:13 |
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No I'm not annoyed at you at all, I'm not even annoyed at your position, just trying to fully understand it which I believe is crucial to political progress
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