Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Music and Musicians Exchange
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - the cacophony of light - bits (2005)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedthe cacophony of light - bits (2005)

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>
Author
Message
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2010 at 07:36
"Prima Ballerina" is your best work yet (from everything I've heard).  That lead at nine minutes was phenomenal.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2010 at 07:52
Thanks Rob, I think I must have been listening to a lot of The Enid that week Embarrassed
What?
Back to Top
SaltyJon View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 28772
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2010 at 09:53
Woo!  New album!  I'm downloading it now, I'll listen when I get some free time.  
Back to Top
Negoba View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2010 at 10:58
I must admit that of the 20 or so albums I've downloaded, borrowed, and bought outright lately, that Moments may be the one I listen to the most. Intelligent dark ambient. Thanks Dean.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Back to Top
paganinio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1327
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2010 at 22:42
ClapI was just enjoying the OP's artwork and text description of his albums. I don't listen to much music these days, but a picture of two are always welcome
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 06:05
spunos - by the cacophony of light
 
I have been playing around with a couple of online vanity presses to see if they are a worthwhile method of self-releasing CDs. The two I have looked at are www.lulu.com and www.createspace.com - both are fairly well known for self-publishing books and both offer a service of converting your album tracks to a hardcopy CD-R (called CD On Demand) complete with full-colour artwork and disc label. To try these services out I have released one of my early CDs by this route.
 
My aim for both methods was to produce a CD as cheaply as possible, forgoing any profit on my part, so the prices shown are the minimum that these sites will allow you to set (ie production costs+profit for them).
 
For both sites you prepare the "mastered" version of the music (.aiff or .wav) and all the necessary artwork (they provide sizing templates) and simply upload them. They do the rest.
 
 
 
They produce a CD-R on demand with a black jewel case tray and a single page inlay booklet - which to my mind is not quite good enough. The proof copy of the CD-R had a pretty poor label print otherwise was fine. The price was set at £3.25 ($5.23 or €3.81) which was excellent, however the CDs are made in the USA so the postage and packing to the UK is a scary £8.99 (€10.53) - hopefully the postage to the USA is considerably cheaper.
 
The cost to the artist is minimal - you pay for one proof copy and that's it, there are no set-up charges or minimum order quantities.
 
The advantage is that they allow mp3-download for free, so I recommend that anyone wanting this release should download it from the link above. /edit - apparently they don't - that's only for books, not music.
 
 
CreateSpace is part of Amazon.com and they also produce CD-R on demand, this time with a transparent jewelcase tray and a 4-page full-colour inlay booklet - which is perfect. The proof copy of the CD-R had a good label print. The price was set at $9.99 (£5.59 or €6.25) which is a little more expensive than lulu, but I think worth the extra for the better package - these are also manufactured in the USA so shipping is again expensive, but not as much as Lulu coming in at $5.35 (£3.22 or €3.89) - again, I assume shipping within the USA will be cheaper.
 
The cost to the artist is minimal - you pay for one proof copy and that's it, there are no set-up charges or minimum order quantities.
 
MP3 Download from CreateSpace is not free (unfortunately) but will cost you $5.99
 
The advantage of using CreateSpace is the direct link into Amazon.com, so anything you publish using CreateSpace can be made available via Amazon - though it appears that it is only Amazon.com and not Amazon.co.uk.
 
Anyway, here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/spunos-Cacophony-Light/dp/B004MYG6WG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1298508734&sr=8-2 ... which is kind of sexy to see in an egotistic vanity induced way.
 
 
 
Conclusion.
 
CreateSpace/Amazon make the better product, and taking postage into account, they do it cheaper. For anyone out there making music wanting to self-release it as a hard-copy CD-R this is definitely the way to go.
 
 
anti-plug: please don't buy my CD (unless you really, really want to) - download it by all means (edit: I'll be uploading it to megaupload in the next few days). I only chose this title because it is linked to a book I wrote and was publishing on both sites at the same time - it's far from my best (though the artwork is rather sexy).
 


Edited by Dean - February 26 2011 at 07:08
What?
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 06:16
I downloaded one of your albums ages ago. Never got to listen I'm sorry to say. Are the song titles meant to be lower case? (for tagging purposes I ask) Also the band name?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 06:28
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I downloaded one of your albums ages ago. Never got to listen I'm sorry to say. Are the song titles meant to be lower case? (for tagging purposes I ask) Also the band name?
Yes. The lowercase is part of the band name, as are some of the track titles.
What?
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2011 at 17:12
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

"Prima Ballerina" is your best work yet (from everything I've heard).  That lead at nine minutes was phenomenal.
This peaked my interest too! Downloading now. And I love the sepium style postcard pictures, designs are dynamic and striking. Better production than some of the Cds I received over the years...
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2011 at 12:25

spunos - free download version

 

..as promised - the free download version of "spunos". This was the second CD of music I ever recorded, so features the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th and 21st pieces of music I ever composed. It's like a very poor curates egg - good in parts, (it's just that those parts are quite tiny).

001 : feldspar (7:00)
002 : galena (7:00)
003 : obsidian (7:00)
004 : corundum (7:00)
005 : nepheline (7:00)
006 : trona (7:00)
007 : gypsum (7:00)

Total playing time 49:00
 
Track 6 includes some rhythm guitar by a Mr T. Gifford-Hull, (ex Season's End and ex Razorblade Kisses), all other noises were made by me.
 
What?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2011 at 08:02

The Mathematica Cacophony - 2004

three principals of mathematical principles
 
In 2003 I created The Gaia Cacophony - a three disc concept album that was a simulacrum of a classical symphony in electronic form, a bit pretentious perhaps, but hey, it's not hurting anyone and doesn't cost anything so quit whingingWink. The following year I decided I really liked the notion of 3 hour albums and set about creating another - this time based upon mathematics, its relationship to music (Harmony, Rhythm and Melody) and as a homage to three "giants" of mathematics whose shoulders we all stand upon.
 
All Music and Artwork by Dean Cracknell, composed and recorded as 'the cacophony of light'. All the artwork shown below is included in the downloads in print-ready format to construct the 8-page inlays for each disc in the set should you feel so motivated to do so.
 
The Mathematica Cacophony - Disc 1 - Geometric
 
Geometric is centred on Pythagoras and his concept of Musica Mundana, The Music of the Spheres - and relates to the Harmony of music, the relationship of one sound to another and the tensions between them.
 

1.
2.
3.

ambivalent geometry
cubing the sphere
infinity minus one

[12:15]
[28:34]
[16:00]

total playing time: 56:49
 
note: The artwork for this album was produced 18 months before Octavarium was released, so you can imagine how "miffed" I was that Dream Theater had used Newton's Cradle on their cover - anyway, mine's far cooler Tongue.
 
The Mathematica Cacophony - Disc 2 - Derivative
 
Derivative is centred on Sir Issac Newton and his laws of motion and relates to the Rhythm of music, its pace and tempo. its meter and timing.
 

1
 
 
 
2
3

Derivate The Function f(v)
- First Derivative
- Second Derivative
- Δv/Δt
(Na, K)AlSiO4
My God! It's Full Of Stairs

[28:51]
 
 
 
[21:00]
[08:20]
total playing time: 68:12
 
note: "(Na, K)AlSiO4 [Nepheline]" is a reworking of "nepheline" from spunos - I make no apologies for that, it needed reworking and it is now 3 times longer than it was, so that's bonus.
warning: my voice can be heard on "My God! It's Full Of Stairs" - and for that I do apologise.
 
The Mathematica Cacophony - Disc 3 - Quantify
 
Quantify is centred on Albert Einstein and his ideas of quantum mechanics and relates to the Melody of music, the quantisation of music into movements, verses, bars and individual notes.
 

part 1:
part 2:

Down The Quantum Well
In Search of Dark Matter

~ [24:00]
~ [48:00]
total playing time: 72:00
 
This download includes 7 bonus tracks that don't strictly form part of the box-set (they won't fit on the CD!), but since they were composed and produced as part of the composition process for Quantify (by way of binary progression) they are in essense part of the suite.
 

bonus track 1:
bonus track 2:
bonus track 3:
bonus track 4:
bonus track 5:
bonus track 6:
bonus track 7:

untitled
untitled
untitled
untitled
untitled
untitled
untitled

~ [00:11]
~ [00
:22]
~ [00
:45]
~ [01
:30]
~ [03
:00]
~ [06
:00]
~ [12:00]
 
 
total playing time of all three discs:
(without bonus tracks) 3:17:02
(with bonus tracks) 3:40:53
 
The "Disc 3" download also includes the artwork to make a slip-case for the three CDs:
 
Since putting this download together I've had chance to listen to this in full for the first time in many years - I think this one possibly could be "Prog" - I was always striving to make that 1 prog album but IMO never really managed it, it was all too easy to drift off into random noises or psuedo classical/new age soundscapes, but on this album I was more constrained, and in that a little more controlled (of course those elements are still there, just not as "flighty") - I'll be damned if I know what kind of Prog it is, but I think it's possibly Prog never the less.
 
 
 
Big smile enjoy.


Edited by Dean - March 18 2011 at 10:35
What?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2011 at 12:31

The quotes from Mathematica Cacophony inlay booklets

As you can imagine I put a lot of thought, time and effort into the research and the artwork for The Mathematica Cacophony. One of the more time consuming, but ultimately enjoyable, tasks was finding apt and appropriate quotations to fit the theme and concept of the album. Those quotes themselves, while not being directly referenced in the music did influence its composition and the thoughts that directed it. They are probably a little hard to read in hte jpegs above, so here they are in full:
 
Geometric - Harmonia Est Discordia Concors (harmony is discordant concord) 
    1. "they supposed the elements of number to be the elements of all things, and the whole heaven to be a musical scale and a number"  - Aristotle
    2. "There is geometry in the humming of the strings... there is music in the spacing of the spheres"  - Pythagoras
    3. "I grant you that no sounds are given forth, but I affirm that the movements of the planets are modulated according to harmonic proportions"  - Kepler
    4. "Upon each of its circles stood a siren who was carried round with its movements, uttering the concords of a single scale"  - Plato
"...Look how the floor of heaven Is thick inlaid with patens of bright gold.
There's not the smallest orb which thou behold'st
But in his motion like an angel sings,
Still quiring to the young-eyed cherubins;
Such harmony is in immortal souls,
But while this muddy vesture of decay
Doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it"  - Shakespeare
 
Derivative - Standing Upon The Shoulders Of Giants
    1. "For a vision of spheres, operated by a first mover or by angels on God's order, Newton had effectively substituted that of a mechanism operating according to a simple natural law" - Bernal
    2. "To the Master's honor all must turn, each in its track, without a sound, forever tracing Newton's ground" - Albert Einstein
    3. "Nature is an infinite sphere of which the center is everywhere and the circumference nowhere." - Blaise Pascal
    4. "I keep the subject of my inquiry constantly before me, and wait till the first dawning opens gradually, by little and little, into a full and clear light." - Isaac Newton
"Against that time, if ever that time come,
When I shall see thee frown on my defects,
When as thy love hath cast his utmost sum,
Called to that audit by advis'd respects;
Against that time when thou shalt strangely pass,
And scarcely greet me with that sun, thine eye,
When love, converted from the thing it was,
Shall reasons find of settled gravity."  - Shakespeare
 
Quantify - Simplicity Is The Ultimate Sophistication
    1. "I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." - Richard P. Feynman
    2. "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." - Carl Gustav Jung
    3. "I'm only a four-dimensional creature. Haven't got a clue how to visualise infinity. Even Einstein hadn't. I know because I asked him." - Patrick Moore
    4. "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." - Plato
"And, when he shall die,
take him and cut him out in little stars,
and he will make the face of heaven so fine
that all the world will be in love with night,
and pay no worship to the garish sun"  - Shakespeare
 
What?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2011 at 06:20

The West/Wind Cacophony - 2004

 
... the last of my 3-hour/3-disc suites (thus far...)
 
My house faces east, so from the kitchen window at the rear of the house, I get commanding views of the sun as it sets over the fields in the distance. The downside of this enviable vista is the West Wind that rips over the fields, leaps over the back hedge and bludgeons my patio with relentless fervor. I saw three ways of exploiting this phenonomina: make a windmill, build an aeolian harp or write some music. I did the last two.
 
The West/Wind Cacophony is a piece in three movements
 
Xolotl

The West, Land of the Setting Sun and entrance to the Underworld.

It is odd, concidering that we live on a globe floating in space, that we have a concept of Eastern and Western cultures, because like it or not, if you travel far enough east, you arrive in the west. And vice versa. If you stand on the shores of China looking out over the Pacific Ocean towards the America's, you would be facing east. From where I'm standing, people of the east come from Sussex and those of the west come from Whiltshire.

For the Aztec and Toltec people of Central America, there were no people in the east or the west, just endless ocean. However, the west was more than just where the sun set. It was the place where Xolotl pushed the Sun into Mictlan, the underworld, and guarded it through its journey until it emerged in the east the following morning, for Xolotl was Lord of the West and the god who guided the dead into Mictlan..

Yaponcha

The Wind God  of Sunset Mountain

The West Wind always blows from the west towards the east. If it changes direction, then it is no longer the West Wind. This sounds a little too obvious when you actually write it down, but it is not true of peoples. Western people remain Westerners regardless of which direction they travel in and western culture remains Western culture even when it is transplanted into other cultures. A burger from the golden arches is pretty much the same in every country I've ever eaten one.

For the Hopi Nation of central North America, the West Wind blew from the mountains where the sun sets every evening.

Zephyrus

The God of The West Wind.

The West is somewhere that can never be reached, like the end of the rainbow it is just over the horizon in the land where the sun sets. Similarily, the West Wind is just a conceptulisation of the wind that blows from that place that-can-never-be-reach. And so the gods of the west wind can still exist even if there are no followers who believe. This is more than just semantics - a falling tree still make a sound if there is no one to hear it - it creates the same compression waves in the air - eventhough  it takes an ear to convert those pressure waves into sound, they still exist. Thus a Wind God will still create the wind, but without humans to interpret that wind and to speculate on it's origin, the god that created it would not have a name.

But still the wind blows.

 
The Aeolian Harp:
(more details >here<)
 
 


Edited by Dean - March 23 2011 at 06:25
What?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 13:02
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Thanks for the music! I'm downloading some right now ("Indulge") Let you know what I think soon. 

Why not be included on the site? You certainly sound like you know what you're doing--and as if you're being quite experimental. Isn't that part what it means to be a 'progressive' artist?
Part of perhaps. My philosophy is generally inclusive, but I recognise that some artists can be "progressive" without being Prog. Since much of my stuff is neoclassical/electronica I don't see that as being Prog as such.
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:


Which leads me to ask: Is this site open to computer generated, self-produced and self-marketed (e.g. bandcamp.com) artists? I know that there are a lot of them out there! I, for one, would be very open to it. I have no doubt that there are a lot of artists making some rather excellent music 'out there' as yet 'undiscovered.' (Look at The Psychedlic Ensemble!)
Yes and No - there is no easy answer. Originally the Prog Archives was intended to be of "signed" artists, ie those who released albums commercially through a record label... The argument for that was simple enough - if the artist hadn't released anything then there was nothing to review, and we are a review site, so there is no point in listing an artist with zero discography.
 
Of course times have changed and now artists can release albums without the need for a label and they can release them for free if they wish, so we adapted our policy to permit "unsigned" and "free-release" artists to be included at the discretion of the evaluation team for each subgenre. In theory this would enable anyone who recorded anything to be eligible - the provision still has to be - release a readily available product that people all over the world can write a review for.
 
As I have said in an earlier post, I don't think that amateurs like myself should be included - and I don't mean "amateur" in a derogatory way either - any "amateur" who is unhappy with that I would call an "aspiring musician" - ie they would be pro or semi-pro if they could - I wouldn't - I'm happy to be an "amateur". I believe the site should be for "serious" artists - those that are signed, or could be signed - those that produce a professional product in a professional manner that people would be prepared to spend money if free-release wasn't an option.
 
Ironically I do not qualify as an "unsigned" artist by the "rules" of this site - I have released albums commercially since 2002, and still do. Technically I am eligible for evaluation by virtue of having an album available for purchase on Amazon.com alongside Yes, Genesis and Tangerine Dream.
 
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:


P.S. The Megaupload link is not working for me. Any other alternatives?

Sorry, no - and I'm not sure which other one-click sites would be a viable alternative - places like SendSpace limit the number of downloads and that's a pain. "Someone" else has had a problem with Megaupload and I don't know why - I've just tried it and it worked fine - wait for the timer to countdown from 45seconds to zero and click on the "Regular Download" button when it appears.
What?
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 14:25
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The West/Wind Cacophony - 2004

 
... the last of my 3-hour/3-disc suites (thus far...)
 
My house faces east, so from the kitchen window at the rear of the house, I get commanding views of the sun as it sets over the fields in the distance. The downside of this enviable vista is the West Wind that rips over the fields, leaps over the back hedge and bludgeons my patio with relentless fervor. I saw three ways of exploiting this phenonomina: make a windmill, build an aeolian harp or write some music. I did the last two.
 
The West/Wind Cacophony is a piece in three movements
 
Xolotl

The West, Land of the Setting Sun and entrance to the Underworld.

It is odd, concidering that we live on a globe floating in space, that we have a concept of Eastern and Western cultures, because like it or not, if you travel far enough east, you arrive in the west. And vice versa. If you stand on the shores of China looking out over the Pacific Ocean towards the America's, you would be facing east. From where I'm standing, people of the east come from Sussex and those of the west come from Whiltshire.

For the Aztec and Toltec people of Central America, there were no people in the east or the west, just endless ocean. However, the west was more than just where the sun set. It was the place where Xolotl pushed the Sun into Mictlan, the underworld, and guarded it through its journey until it emerged in the east the following morning, for Xolotl was Lord of the West and the god who guided the dead into Mictlan..


 

My  god this a long one...........Ermm
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 14:28
http://rlv.zcache.com/thats_what_she_said_mug-p1681771083503806182om5b_400.jpg
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 14:29
^ Did she?Not to me.LOL


BTW..Cultural info alert. In Britain we say "As the actress said to the bishop"

(did I already tell you that?)


Edited by Snow Dog - April 07 2011 at 14:30
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 14:33
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^ Did she?Not to me.LOL


BTW..Cultural info alert. In Britain we say "As the actress said to the bishop"

(did I already tell you that?)


Nope- news to me!  LOL

But wait, in Wales, don't you speak in an unpronounceable language?

Like "Crwyerrf Cnwmarg Llannegemff yr Gymraeg?"
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 14:34
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^ Did she?Not to me.LOL


BTW..Cultural info alert. In Britain we say "As the actress said to the bishop"

(did I already tell you that?)


Nope- news to me!  LOL

But wait, in Wales, don't you speak in an unpronounceable language?

Like "Crwyerrf Cnwmarg Llannegemff yr Gymraeg?"

It isn't compulsory (yet)
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2011 at 15:01
Fel y dywedodd yr actores i'r esgob
What?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.332 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.