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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
Posted: April 04 2011 at 19:49
Calprog has no FB page outside of the promoters page. I am really at a loss to say why that is. It seems to me these social network sites, well maybe not Myspace anymore, can get your info in front of a lot more new people with friends sharing your links and posts than you could reach with any conventional advertising. Last year through my wifes hairdresser (who is a music fan but not really a prog fan but likes Neal Morse) I met a guy who wanted to see Spock's Beard. When i talked to him he said he knew about The Flower Kings, SB, Dream Theater etc but had never heard of Calprog, Progressive ears or PA. He lived 15 minutes from the Calprog site too. I am wondering if you are really trying to reach people when guys like this fall through the crack.
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
Posted: April 04 2011 at 15:25
Garion81 wrote:
^It was a great idea but they did not reach outside of the core audience to sell.it. That was the mistake and it is the mistake of all the fests in the States. As I said earlier if I didn't have to pay the expense of air fare I would have gone. I think UM would have catered a great set geared straight to the attendees of that fest much the same way Ambrosia did at Calprog and Rosfest. The guys in Ambrosia were so happy to play nothing but their prog songs as they do not get to do that very often. I am sure Umphrey's McGee would have been the same.
exactly!!
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
Posted: April 04 2011 at 15:23
Tony R wrote:
micky wrote:
Tony R wrote:
It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the organisers, surely there is more to this than meets the eye.
regarding the cancellation itself, they did over at PE's if you did not see it.
Yes, I read the explanation. I'm just wondering how they thought they could sell that lineup and it smacks of "someone's" bright idea going badly wrong.
'selling the lineup'? You really are too kind, perhaps without me around to kick about, you've gone whimpy and got in touch with your feminine side and learned the art of tact The merits of the idea of having contemporary headliners are debatable.. what isn't perhaps is that they sure seemed to made little effort to expand the audience base beyond the friendly, backslapping, confines of one website. . Did I actually read .. here on a prog site.. a post that someone would have gone, if they knew about it. I believe they had a FB page that was never updated or used to promote it. Granted PA's is a mess but to not even try to sell it to a large prog site? People can go on and on about the lineup, but where it really failed was relying on a core group and obviously not caring or wanting to expand past that group. I suspect that if NF continues, that was a lesson they will have learned the hard way. We'll see what happens.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
Posted: April 04 2011 at 15:08
^It was a great idea but they did not reach outside of the core audience to sell.it. That was the mistake and it is the mistake of all the fests in the States. As I said earlier if I didn't have to pay the expense of air fare I would have gone. I think UM would have catered a great set geared straight to the attendees of that fest much the same way Ambrosia did at Calprog and Rosfest. The guys in Ambrosia were so happy to play nothing but their prog songs as they do not get to do that very often. I am sure Umphrey's McGee would have been the same.
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
Posted: April 04 2011 at 13:15
micky wrote:
Tony R wrote:
It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the organisers, surely there is more to this than meets the eye.
regarding the cancellation itself, they did over at PE's if you did not see it.
Yes, I read the explanation. I'm just wondering how they thought they could sell that lineup and it smacks of "someone's" bright idea going badly wrong.
I WAS going to go. I have patron tickets. I was really excited to see Karmakanic, UM, Curved Air and New Trolls. I am incredibly depressed that it's not going to happen. However, I can see exactly why. Oh well, you can catch UM any time. New Trolls, not so much.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: April 04 2011 at 01:34
Leads one to wonder if the protests at bringing a jam band to NEARFest were made without actually listening to any of UM's music. If it is said that they didn't give the audience what they wanted, are we going by labels or the music?
Joined: August 15 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1305
Posted: April 04 2011 at 01:26
CharAznable wrote:
Listening to some UM... 100% appropriate for NEARFest. Significant 70's prog influence there.
Funny how some music is defined by the audience who listens to it instead of the music itself.. I feel the same way about early Phish.. stuff like "Divided Sky" is a lot closer to Gentle Giant than Grateful Dead.
The first time I heard Gentle Giant my inital thought was "Hey's here's a band making a whole album of songs that sound like 'Reba'".
Granted this was in my younger and more naive years but the point still stands. Jam Band music is one of the best gateways to prog. If I hadn't been interested in bands like Phish and DMB when I was younger, I probably would have never discovered so many bands I know and love today. In fact the first time my friend introduced me to LTE and Dream Theater she used the description "they're like a jam band but with metal" (this was someone who wasn't familiar with the term "progressive rock", I wasn't either). When I stumbled upon this site years later and saw how many bands I already liked were listed, I became curious about so many of the other bands, and a new love for music was born.
Man, Umphrey's and Karmakanic? I probably would have gone to this if I'd only I'd known about it.
Listening to some UM... 100% appropriate for NEARFest. Significant 70's prog influence there.
Funny how some music is defined by the audience who listens to it instead of the music itself.. I feel the same way about early Phish.. stuff like "Divided Sky" is a lot closer to Gentle Giant than Grateful Dead.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: April 03 2011 at 22:11
micky wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
All this talk about UM made me turn to Mantis. At least this album sounds right up the alley of those favouring the 70s brand of prog (as opposed to the metal/experimental side) to me. So, some of the disdainful reactions are surprising but it's all a matter of taste, I guess.
Funny.. I grabbed that CD on the way out the door earlier today when we went out and listened to it again. It wasn't the greatest album I've ever heard by far, but you are exactly right, the group was not as much a WTF selection as some seemed to think. They probably would have wow'd the crowd if they had had the chance. I'd be lying if I said that the announcement of UM excited me but it did make me curious to see what they'd do for the crowd. The part of Nearfest that always got me jazzed were the other groups. Finding and seeing the lesser known, that is what we were going for and I figured that is what most people enjoyed most out of it.
The reactions? Perhaps I'm too jaded from years spent on prog forums to be surprised by any negative reactions by prog fans. I do agree with Brian that 'prog fan' can be one of the most close-minded of all music fans. Once I heard the dread 'jam band' accusation thrown out perhaps we should have all seen that this was going to end badly. Though like all, including the organizers I would have never thought that it would be enough for people to stay away.. the undercards are worth the price alone, the discoveries of new groups and all that, along with all the other things like seeing old friends, meeting new ones etc etc. Oh well. It's all really sad in a way.
Exactly, the implicit insinuation especially that UM has nothing to do with prog at all is far out because it is definitely from that sphere of modern prog which would satiate fans of the 70s scene more rather than the prog metal fan base. I cannot comment on what part the ticketing arrangement played in it and maybe UM was not enticing enough to bring in 'Patrons' but, well, there was also Curved Air in the billing and would have also expected Karmakanic to draw audiences.
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: April 03 2011 at 20:35
rogerthat wrote:
All this talk about UM made me turn to Mantis. At least this album sounds right up the alley of those favouring the 70s brand of prog (as opposed to the metal/experimental side) to me. So, some of the disdainful reactions are surprising but it's all a matter of taste, I guess.
Funny.. I grabbed that CD on the way out the door earlier today when we went out and listened to it again. It wasn't the greatest album I've ever heard by far, but you are exactly right, the group was not as much a WTF selection as some seemed to think. They probably would have wow'd the crowd if they had had the chance. I'd be lying if I said that the announcement of UM excited me but it did make me curious to see what they'd do for the crowd. The part of Nearfest that always got me jazzed were the other groups. Finding and seeing the lesser known, that is what we were going for and I figured that is what most people enjoyed most out of it.
The reactions? Perhaps I'm too jaded from years spent on prog forums to be surprised by any negative reactions by prog fans. I do agree with Brian that 'prog fan' can be one of the most close-minded of all music fans. Once I heard the dread 'jam band' accusation thrown out perhaps we should have all seen that this was going to end badly. Though like all, including the organizers I would have never thought that it would be enough for people to stay away.. the undercards are worth the price alone, the discoveries of new groups and all that, along with all the other things like seeing old friends, meeting new ones etc etc. Oh well. It's all really sad in a way.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
Posted: April 03 2011 at 20:09
CharAznable wrote:
I just read the whole thread and there's not a lot of info beyond what it's on the original announcement.
But the lingering questions for me:
"Transitional" lineup? Transition to what?
What was the logic behind this year's lineup?
to my knowledge they have never spelled that out. If I had an ego the size of Texas I'd say they read my Nearfest review from last year where I pointed out the future dilemna Nearfest was going to have with classic headliners becoming rarer and harder to book. Since I don't and Micky...only pawn in the game of prog, I could only think of one reason why they'd tamper with a winning formula, that the winning formula was a long term loser. Thus the need for transition.
I'd be guessing.. but I sure can't think of ONE good reason why it would be transitional unless they were thinking the same thing I had and decided to transition from a festival with classic prog headliners being the emphasis to more modern faire. One to be honest I agree strongly with, however to be a Monday morning QB it could have been done a lot better. Starting with the obvious... explaining WHY it was a transition lineup and why they felt one was needed. In it's own funny way though, that need got shown and explained. The shame of it is it could have been done without the graphic example of losing a year of Nearfest. My own private thoughts are that they misjudged their core audience and thought they'd buy tickets for the experience, friends and good times, and didn't understand what they really wanted (or what they DID NOT want).
Edited by micky - April 03 2011 at 20:15
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
Posted: April 03 2011 at 17:30
CharAznable wrote:
Truly, We'll never know exactly what happened until they speak up.
Looking back at the historical lineups just confirms my thoughts: you can indeed please everyone in three days.
even then I doubt we will.. at least the whole story hahah. There is a 3rd variable in addition to the audience and organizers that hasn't spoken and probably won't (publically at least ).. and those that do, like UM, will obviously be extremely diplomatic and take the high road. Does anyone really think they didn't read the threads regarding their announcement. You'd have to be a saint to not take this cancellation personally. Then there are the undercards, the non-headliner for whom this was just not another gig... nice to feel the love of the progressive community huh?
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
Posted: April 03 2011 at 16:03
thanks Roger.. . Thinking back to the immortal Damone. It's 'the attitude'....
fertilize the internet with enough sh*t and sooner or later something might grow hahha
Garion81 wrote:
In my humble opinion I think there is enough room for both the bands that want to expand their music on the style of the 70's groups and new groups who want to go into another direction. We as fans are the most closed minded of any genre as we don't like it unless it matches up to our vision of what we expect. As someone who actually has seen UM play I think they are a very good band and cater to more than just a prog audience. Maybe this is the real problem with prog fans especially those not willing expand beyond the 70's or those that think that regulated noise is the intellectual equivalent to musical nirvana. I have never met more closed minded people than prog fans for the most part. Very few are willing to step outside the comfort zone of what they feel is the real deal. I have been guilty of that at times myself but I am making a supreme effort at my age to not be a stick in the mud fuddy duddy. . I read a comment of a guitar player of a band I really like that described UM as vanilla. Okay his band styles themselves on the 70's fusion sounds and rarely steps out that style and he dares to call a band willing to step outside of it's comfort zone vanilla It is this kind of comment I am starting to resent. First of all what is wrong with vanilla? Just like any other flavor if you eat it too much it tastes the same. I do not think UM falls into that. They vary their style a lot. I also wonder about this guitar player and is he just jealous of the fact that his live appearances equal roughly once or twice a year? I think we all need to open our minds and relax our sphincters a couple of notches. I would have paid to see the Nearfest lineup if I did not have to get on an airplane to see it. I do it all the time with Calprog however so I do put my money where my mouth is.
I couldn't agree more Brian. Great post.I saw the posts you are referring too.... yet another sorry episode in this affair. Today's episode seems to be the honest thoughts of attendee being lambasted as the ravings of a troll because he said something that obviously hit a little too close to comfort for some. Pretty damn hard to see something an outsider might see... when your ass is planted firmly on the inside. Pretty funny if you ask me since the cliquish nature of this particular forum is a problem that has been acknowledged by many on that site. Even to point of soliciting ideas to make 'outsiders' feel more welcome. Should be no surprise that with the symbiotic relationship between the site and Nearfest.. that insider/outsider nature would naturally reproduce itself. For me I could care less. As long I had beer, smokes between shows, along with HT, Raff, David, and Walter to shoot the bull with I was happy. As I said over at PE's.. if I sense a clique.. the LAST thing I'd want to do is try to be a part of it.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: August 18 2008
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Posted: April 03 2011 at 12:26
Tony R wrote:
NEARfest 2010
Steve Hackett, Eddie Jobson's Ultimate Zero Project, Three Friends, The Enid, Riverside, Pineapple Thief, Iona, Forgas Band Phenomena, Astra, and Moraine
NEARfest '09 (June 19, 20 & 21, 2009)
PFM, Gong, Van der Graaf Generator, Steve Hillage Band, Trettioåriga Kriget, Beardfish, DFA, Cabezas de Cera, Oblivion Sun, Quantum Fantay
NEARfest X (2008)
Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Liquid Tension Experiment, Fish, Peter Hammill, Synergy, echolyn, Discipline, Radio Massacre International, Mörglbl, and Koenji Hyakkei
NEARfest 2007
Magma, Hawkwind, Pure Reason Revolution, Magenta, La Maschera di Cera, NeBeLNeST, Indukti, IZZ, Robert Rich, and Bob Drake
(Progressive Arts Preshow: Allan Holdsworth, Secret Oyster and One Shot)
NEARfest 2006
Keith Emerson, Ozric Tentacles, Ange, FM, Michael Manring, Richard Leo Johnson, Niacin, Riverside, Guapo, and KBB
(Progressive Arts Preshow: Hatfield and the North and The Tony Levin Band)
NEARfest 2005
Le Orme, IQ, Present, Kenso, Steve Roach, Matthew Parmenter, The Muffins, Frogg Cafe, Wobbler, and Knight Area
(Progressive Arts Preshow: PFM and Proto-Kaw)
NEARfest 2004
Strawbs, Univers Zero, Mike Keneally Band, Planet X, Richard Pinhas, Sean Malone, Metamorfosi, Pallas, Yezda Urfa, and Hidria Spacefolk
(Progressive Arts Preshow: The Musical Box)
NEARfest 2003
Camel, Magma, The Flower Kings, Änglagård, Kraan, Tunnels, Glass Hammer, Alamaailman Vasarat, High Wheel, and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum
(The Laser's Edge/Cuneiform Records Preshow: Miriodor, Woodenhead, and IZZ)
NEARfest 2002
Steve Hackett, Nektar, echolyn, Caravan, Isildurs Bane, Enchant, Miriodor, Gerard, La Torre dell'Alchimista, and Spaced Out
(The Laser's Edge/Cuneiform Records Preshow: McGill/Manring/Stevens, Dr. Nerve, and Dysrythmia)
NEARfest 2001
Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Porcupine Tree, Deus Ex Machina, After Crying, White Willow, California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin, Djam Karet, Birdsongs of the Mesozoic, The Underground Railroad, and Under the Sun
(Independently organized preshow: Land of Chocolate, The Red Masque, Electric Sheepdog and Wine of Nails)
NEARfest 2000
Transatlantic, Happy the Man, Anekdoten, Pär Lindh Project, Iluvatar, Il Balletto di Bronzo, DFA, Thinking Plague, North Star, and Nexus
(Official Preshow: echolyn and Priam)
NEARfest 1999
Spock's Beard, IQ, Solaris, Mastermind, Larry Fast, Crucible, Scott McGill's Hand Farm, Ice Age, Alaska, and Nathan Mahl
-----------------------
If you compare the roster for 2011 to those above there are serious questions need posing. Obviously I don't know how financially successful those previous years were but what happened here?
Thanks for posting that Tony. It looks to me that this list of line-up shows that the source of the problem was easily the lack of really interesting (big? exciting? dunno what to put there) names that could make the fans decide for going. As for the "prog" quotient, I see a lot of names outside the safe area of a regular progger, still the festival was successful until now. I see a good balance of "great names" (classics), new interesting bands and more "difficult" bands.
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Garion81 wrote:
The merits of the idea of having contemporary headliners are debatable.. what isn't perhaps is that they sure seemed to made little effort to expand the audience base beyond the friendly, backslapping, confines of one website. . Did I actually read .. here on a prog site.. a post that someone would have gone, if they knew about it. I believe they had a FB page that was never updated or used to promote it. Granted PA's is a mess but to not even try to sell it to a large prog site? People can go on and on about the lineup, but where it really failed was relying on a core group and obviously not caring or wanting to expand past that group. I suspect that if NF continues, that was a lesson they will have learned the hard way. We'll see what happens. 
).. and those that do, like UM, will obviously be extremely diplomatic and take the high road. Does anyone really think they didn't read the threads regarding their announcement. You'd have to be a saint to not take this cancellation personally. Then there are the undercards, the non-headliner for whom this was just not another gig... nice to feel the love of the progressive community huh?