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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 22:23 |
^I just bought Strange Places. I hope the enjoyment is on the good side  .
EDIT: Heard it twice already. Good enjoyment. I reviewed it on iTunes (though the review doesn't appear yet).
BUT you CAN't expect that kind of music to have anything to do with the market for Rebecca Black's magnum opus 
Edited by The T - April 01 2011 at 22:32
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Earendil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1584
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 22:39 |
leonalvarado wrote:
Sure you can generalise. I gather you are rather young yourself. That's cool. In your case and others like you, it doesn't apply. Generalisations are just what people use to come up with conclusions for a particular data. Generalisation is basically another word for averaging a sample. Sure you don't think that I actually meant for no one young to realise who some of the bands were. I understand the implications my argument takes. Apparently I wrongly assumed that most people on these forums would understand where I'm coming from. Instead, they are taking it as a personal attack of one form or another. I have already being accused to not having a sense of humour and I guess also for not "contributing" enough to get some sort of special title. Never mind my actual musical contributions or all of the artwork that I've done throughout the last twenty or so years which are, in most people's minds, real contributions to the genre.
Look it is simple. My rant is not about personal issues and therefore I have to generalise. Otherwise I would be also accused of character assassination. I'm just stating my opinion. Have you seen the opinions of people towards the new YES lineup? You would think they want Chris Squire's head on a stick. How about Phil Collins selling out Genesis for a quick buck? Or Pink Floyd sucking because Roger Waters wasn't there.
In the end I'm glad that many people in the school listen to The Who. That makes me happy because I like The Who. I did some work once for John Entwistle. Meeting him was actually quite humorous. He showed up with a lady who would basically repeat anything I would say to him. He then would muttered some gargled sounds to the woman who in turn would repeat what he said in a form of English that I was able to understand. This went on back and forth for the duration of the conversation. I swear if I had a gun pointed at my head I could not understand anything that he would say. At the end we all sort of laughed out loud (I certainly did and he at least smiled).
Please take the thread for what it is, just an opinion. Frank Zappa once said: "Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?" He also said: "Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass". My point? Just opinions, nothing to fret about and nothing to point out "who gives me the right to, balh blah, blah" as someone else on the thread already has.
Be cool!  |
I respect your opinion. Especially because people in general could be a lot less fickle and stupid.
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
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Posted: April 01 2011 at 23:20 |
Atoms wrote:
I just checked out that Rebecca Black on Youtube, this is even worse than the usual stuff I hear. The music industry really is a sad place right now. |
Rebecca Black > Lady Gaga ROFL!!!! Pop is Dead. Long live Rock.(Apologies to Pete Townsend)
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 00:56 |
Pop - and really, really bad pop at that - is a separate market from that of prog and that has always been the reality. Barbara Streisand's debut was also a blockbuster and even if she might be, at least imo, heaps better as a singer than many contemporary divas, that was surely staid and conservative next to some of the exciting things going on in the 60s. There have always been people who'd rather listen to Leonard Cohen than The Who and whatever may be the former's undeniable appeal for some sections of the audience, I don't see that as something taking rock/pop music places which The Who did.
With that being said, I'd like to bring up a point which seems to have been evaded in this discussion (or maybe I missed it!  ). Music's place in popular culture and society is surely sinking and has been in decline for sometime. With the advent of computers, video gaming and so many other distractions, music as a source of entertainment has become less relevant or appealing. It's therefore not surprising that the one which grabs the most eyeballs wins in the commercial sweepstakes. I am writing to you - the threadstarter, sorry couldn't get your userid - from thousands of miles away in India and here too, genius in composition or virtuosity in singing was valued and celebrated much, much more in years past than it is now. People must be apologetic for the present era to deny it. Yes, there are people who still have an ear for quality in music (and I am NOT getting into any long argument about the subjectivity of quality here!) but I am, as you are, referring to the general demographic here. The general demographic is after all important to sustain a business and to pay musicians for their work. Millions of copies of sales for left-field music is not sustainable anymore because people have found new toys to play with and don't have the time anymore. That is to say, if it may be unsavoury of what is seen as a golden era of rock music, it is likely that if the same distractions had existed then in the 70s too, very many of those millions of listeners may not have after all bought those albums because these would have fascinated them more than the music.
To compound matters, there are many more artists releasing their work through various means today so grabbing eyeballs is that much harder, in a very divided and fragmented fanbase. My suggestion - it may be something that you've already considered, nevertheless... - is to do what this guy Cert1fied who writes intermittently here does. He derives actual samples of live instrument playing from recorded songs (like THAT bass tone in Tom Sawyer, just as an example), loads them into what I believe is a MIDI keyboard and plays his own original parts with these tones on the keyboard. The effect is pretty good, I must say. He was last seen searching for an elusive NWOBHM guitar tone. As you said, there are costs involved in hiring fine musicians to play on a record and if the economics doesn't work out, it is surely better to opt for something like this than to not make music at all, which would be a shame (some prominent neo prog musician took that step recently). It then doesn't pinch your wallet and you still have the satisfaction of making the kind of music you want to and not submit to the world of Rebbeca Black. And if somebody decides to buy your song just for fun, you get to keep the money too.
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leonalvarado
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 177
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 11:06 |
The T wrote:
^I just bought Strange Places. I hope the enjoyment is on the good side .
EDIT: Heard it twice already. Good enjoyment. I reviewed it on iTunes (though the review doesn't appear yet).
BUT you CAN't expect that kind of music to have anything to do with the market for Rebecca Black's magnum opus  |
Well, I'm glad you liked it. And no, I don't expect to be in the same market for the Friday song. It was never about specifics. Rebecca's song is musically bad even in her own market. It was never about the music or Rebecca. It is about people willing to spend money in silly things instead of at least looking for something with at least some value. The best argument I read so far against my original post is the one about finding some value in the laughter created by the song. I can see that but, not to the point of spending any money on it. Specially if I could see it for free.
As far as Rebecca Black herself, there you go baby! College paid for. It really doesn't get any better than that. I just hope that the mass media doesn't get a hold of her around the talk-show circuit because that sort of thing is usually a bad thing for a kid's mind and ego. Also, people love to build up Cinderella stories as much as they love to destroy the ending. There is a fine line between good exposure and overexposure in an instant-gratification world.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 12:46 |
There are much, much worse things in the field of commercial music. Have you heard of turbo-folk or manele?
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 12:51 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
There are much, much worse things in the field of commercial music. Have you heard of turbo-folk or manele?
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I've heard about Serbian turbo-folk - in a documentary about Milosevic. It was an awkward introduction and I can't say it gave me a huge desire to explore this genre.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 12:57 |
It's best you stay away from it
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: April 02 2011 at 13:01 |
Time to chime in
i think this has been mentioned before, but im not sure. One of the bigger problems is the lack of exposure for newer acts. Acts that have been around for 40 years are still advertised on TV, radio, internet; even if they're dead (half the Beatles, Elvis, etc..). Newer acts never get their time in the sun.
I know a little more than a dozen bands and artists who, 10-15 years ago would have broken out into commercial success, but with the way things are now, they have to work VERY hard to make a living.
I'll use the jam band circuit as an example.
When Jerry Garcia died in 95, Phish took over as the biggest jam band after the Grateful Dead. When Phish broke up for a hiatus in 2004, Umphrey's McGee were poised to take that mantle, being they were on the rise for a few years before. But with the way the internet was by the time of the middle of the decade, people just kept talking about Phish, and hoping they'd get back together soon, etc. and how Umphrey's McGee were going to take their place as the biggest jam band. But everyone just kept talking about it on forums, but it never happened. Now Phish are back and bigger than ever, never giving a chance for any of the lesser known bands.
It's sad really. I can use the same situation as above for different bands, just switch the band names around.
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Posted: May 15 2011 at 16:23 |
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