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leonalvarado View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Estate of the music
    Posted: March 30 2011 at 23:40
Hello all,
I'm basically copying my own copy that I posted somewhere in the world of facebook. I thought this forum might be more appropriate.

This note is a somewhat a bit off my current path. It is perhaps a rant of sorts but, I have a strong feeling about the subject so therefore I must write something. If you like Rebbeca Black, you might as well stop reading this now.

 

A little teenager armed with auto-tune equipment and some of daddy's money decides to record her own song and make a video about it. Being the dad of two daughters that at one point or another wanted to become singing stars, I can understand the kid's desire to do what she did. I do not understand however, the fascination that people have towards the bad and the mediocre. This girl supposedly has recorded the worst song ever written by anyone but, (and this one's a big BUT), more than 33 million people have seen her video on You Tube and she has already made around $25,000.00 on iTunes downloads. How low can we go as a society?

 

Meantime, there are many talented artists (or at least clever artists) with pretty good music that struggle with this concept. I don't even think she did it originally for the money! This leaves me with no sound excuse as to why her little song has sold like gangbusters and my CDs haven't sold enough copies to even cover their costs.

 

I try to compare, she has a video and I'm still slowly working on mine (I don't have a rich father to pay for the bloody thing). She has auto-tune and my music so far has no vocals (salvo for one song with minimal vocals). She looks better than me (but you don't know that, mainly because I don't have a video with a bunch of my friends riding on a car). I could be the best looking thing that no one has ever seen, (not).

 

I have two of the biggest talents in progressive rock (Bill Bruford and John Goodsall) performing on my album and she has some dude on a car raping to her song. I'm not only on iTunes but Amazon, Spotify, CD Universe, CDBaby, Napster, etc., she apparently doesn't need that many outlets. I'm old enough to be her dad and have had enough time for her to have much older siblings but she couldn't be my daughter and needless to say, anything else for that matter.

 

So what gives? The listeners. They are the ones driving this whole thing. The days of loving music for music's sake are long gone. My whole music genre (progressive rock), is stagnant in growth and only adored by those who were there when it all unfolded, thirty-odd years ago. One look at a prog-rock concert today and you know where we stand. A sea of grey and shiny heads, faded concert shirts older than some grown people (don't fret about it, I count myself in this group). Girls still dancing to music never meant for dance. Cute in the seventies when they where nineteen and twenty year old. Not so cute today.

 

Today is different, today is not the same (Peter Gabriel's quote for all of us who still remember it). Today's young people have the attention span of a fly on speed. Their music comes and goes in a flash and without any of us noticing it. Kid's today don't know who The Who is and worst, they don't care. "Tommy? Tommy who?" That's right kid.

 

It all makes for a sad estate of the music. Good music still gets out these days. But those making it find it much harder to squeeze a living out of it. Can't see Chris Squire being carried out to the stage in a giant egg like Lady Gaga did at the Oscars. Yet, at the same time I find lots of resistance from prog-rock's fans. For starters, they are not that different from the kids when it comes to paying for music. Basically, no one likes to pay for music anymore. It makes it difficult because there are many bands that need the income. If anything, just to keep making music. Take the band YES for example, many fans have gone into bashing the band for not including Jon Anderson these days. To me, it's all about the music and not so much about who is or who isn't in the band anymore. Sure, it would be ideal for all the favourite members to be included but, if that's not possible, then I'll take any replacement that doesn't ruin the music. I've seen YES more than any other band, nine or ten times. I last saw them earlier this year and it was one of the best times I have ever heard the band play. The music was just spot-on but that didn't seem to matter to those who just wanted to see Jon Anderson at the front of it all. In a way it is somewhat sad. Like I said many a time, some YES is better than no YES and I'm more than willing to let the latest line-up carry on the way they have been. Seriously, how many more years until these fine music legends actually hang their hats? My guess is sooner than later so I want to enjoy it for as long as I can. With or without Jon (no hate mail please).

 

When my first CD came out, (Plays Genesis and Other Original Stuff), fans either loved it or hated it. not much in between. For a whilst I wondered why. I couldn't figure out where I went wrong. Most critics liked it, it got good reviews in Italy and in the UK. I got many e-mails from fans who liked it. Steve Hackett himself was very complementary and to this day we correspond with each other through e-mails. So, where did I go wrong? The answer is nowhere. I didn't have to "go wrong". I was walking through sacred ground (sort of speak) and that was reason enough to be ostracised by many. Somewhere along the lines it stopped being about the music of Genesis and more about the fans' perception of the band's members. Not being a band member makes me an outsider so therefore, I'm in the wrong. (But hey, my name is on one of their records! Never mind that it was for photography and not for music).

 

I have being accused of trying to turn a quick profit on someone else's talent. Never mind that we are two years down this road and I'm still don't have a cent to show for profits. What about all the symphony orchestras around the world. Are they trying to make a quick dollar on Bethoven's coat tails? How about the music? Why not giving the thing a chance before making a pre-conceded judgement on it?

 

My first CD was half Genesis songs and half original songs but many people never took the time to check it all out. My second CD is two thirds original material with the exception of one Genesis song which was carry-over material from the previous album. For my second CD I went out of my element and utilised John Goodsall (Brand X) for the guitars and drum tracks by Bill Bruford (YES, King Crimson, Earthworks). The material is different but the few reviews that I have seen are very favourable. So, why isn't it flying off the shelfs? To me, it is not a matter of having something "fly" off the shelf. It is more about doing the sort of music that I would love to hear as a fan. It is about moving forward musically and taking a few friends along. It is about sharing the result with people of similar taste. And yes, it is about making at least enough money to cover the expenses. That's all I want from it. To cover my cost so that I can do more and share more with the people that love the same music I do.

 

One way or another I'll be making more music. It is something I enjoy doing. I also enjoy having well-respected musicians play on my records and I am working towards continuing that. My integrity as an artist won't let me do a song like Rebbeca Black's and my looks won't let me do a video like her neither. $25,000.00 is a lot of money made by a single song coming from an unknown. I could easily use a lot less than that in order to keep going.

 

I just keep wondering....

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 00:02
yeah that's why it's called Pop

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 00:47
I just checked out that Rebecca Black on Youtube, this is even worse than the usual stuff I hear. The music industry really is a sad place right now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 01:38
at least people can listen to what they want. the world will surely reach a point in where you cant choose. you HAVE to listen to X music, and NOT listen to Y music.

god bless all these "under" bands, all the hidden gems and all the amateur artists that create beautiful music out of what their minds can do, not out of what money can buy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 01:59
If you look back at the music of the sixties and seventies; it wasn't the silly pop of the time that is still listened to today. Only the bigger and better acts survive the test of time. Big names of today's popscene will mean nothing in twenty years and no collector will search for their absolete music. History isn't influenced by single hypes, it's written in the big lines and in the end the quality of music will prevail.

Having that said I can understand how frustrating these situations about imense populair one-day-flies are for hard working and inventive musicians. Populair culture is defined by very young people (12-18 years old) who still are in the grip of the financial motivated media and it's financial power. Ever thought of the idea that little children (mainly silly girls) would make your music populair?

Edited by friso - March 31 2011 at 01:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 02:14
Originally posted by Cracked.com Cracked.com wrote:

First of all, you have the fact that the crap from previous eras gets forgotten, leaving only the great stuff behind. Those songs on classic rock stations are obviously cherry-picked as the best and most indicative of an entire era; it's not a random sampling of all the music available at the time. Modern rock or pop stations, on the other hand, have to play whatever's come out in the past six months or so.

So there is a filter applied to the old stuff. Even most of the music in Mozart's day was bullsh*t. And because it was bullsh*t, nobody felt the need to keep copies. And what was preserved isn't played today. Because it's bullsh*t. So it's easy to look back at Mozart's era (or the 1960s, or whatever) and assume that because only the classics survive in our memory, everything made back then was a classic.

The other problem is we assume that what gets remembered over time is whatever was the most popular. Not true.

For instance, what survives from the Vietnam era (thanks mostly to Vietnam movies) are songs like the badass protest song "Fortunate Son" by Creedence Clearwater Revival and "Gimme Shelter" by the Rolling Stones. Both were released in 1969, after the war started going bad.

Now look at the Billboard year-end singles charts from 1946 to today. The top song in 1969? "Sugar, Sugar" by the Archies. Let us quote the entire lyrics of that song:

[lyrics of "Sugar, Sugar" by The Archies]

"Fortunate Son" got no higher than No. 14 on the charts. "Gimme Shelter"? It was never released as a single at all.

Go ahead, look down the list. There is some great music on there, but it's mixed in with a lot of stuff you've probably never even heard of. And do you know what you don't see on there? Queen, Led Zeppelin and a lot of other great musicians. Groups that are well-remembered now, when classic rock radio stations wouldn't be caught dead playing some of the sh*t that outsold them. Even Elvis and The Beatles are only on there twice, tying for the most No. 1 year-end singles with none other than George Michael

Yeah, there has never been "music for the sake of music". Even in the classical and jazz ages, popularity biases existed. There was probably a lot of tonally experiment music going on during the classical age that was forgotten because it was hated.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 02:19
Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

If you look back at the music of the sixties and seventies; it wasn't the silly pop of the time that is still listened to today. Only the bigger and better acts survive the test of time. Big names of today's popscene will mean nothing in twenty years and no collector will search for their absolete music. History isn't influenced by single hypes, it's written in the big lines and in the end the quality of music will prevail.


really good point


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 02:21
^ true, if you get one of those nostalgia collections with the top 20 singles from yeach year of the 60s and 70s, the difference between what we now know that was great in those years and what we get on the discs is shocking. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 02:32
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

If you look back at the music of the sixties and seventies; it wasn't the silly pop of the time that is still listened to today. Only the bigger and better acts survive the test of time. Big names of today's popscene will mean nothing in twenty years and no collector will search for their absolete music. History isn't influenced by single hypes, it's written in the big lines and in the end the quality of music will prevail.


really good point



But... will that really happen? It happened in the 60s' because the music was popular AND good. But I don't think there are any musicians nowadays with that level of popularity and skill. Maybe Muse fits the bill, but that's all I can think of.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 02:37
Wow, that's one mean-ass song. I think I prefer that frog thing.
Apart from that although I know where you're coming from: That's one great story, Grandpahw.  LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 05:21
 
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

Kid's today don't know who The Who is and worst, they don't care. "Tommy? Tommy who?" That's right kid.

Wrong wrong wrong. Many young people still listen to "classic rawk", and even if they didn't, I see no reason why they should care about The Who.

Pop music has never been "good", I am tired of people complaining that the music died because these whippersnappers and their ipods. Any difference in your perceived quality of the majority of popular music of the past and today's popular music is purely the result of your stylistic biases.

Friday is a sensation only because it is one of the worst songs of all time and that makes it funny, complaining that it's a bad song is missing the point to the point of stupidity! Nobody actually likes it!
Originally posted by Atoms Atoms wrote:

I just checked out that Rebecca Black on Youtube, this is even worse than the usual stuff I hear. The music industry really is a sad place right now.

Rebecca Black is not a part of the music industry, at all. Her parents paid $2000 for her to record the vocals on a pre-written song and shoot a video. It was a vanity project and only a few people would have randomly seen it on Youtube if it hadn't been noticed by *chan and Tosh.0 and then picked up everywhere else as a lightning rod for the hate of the entire internet. 

Also, I do not think estate was the word you meant to use.


Edited by Henry Plainview - March 31 2011 at 05:42
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 10:06
Originally posted by Nathaniel607 Nathaniel607 wrote:


Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

If you look back at the music of the sixties and seventies; it wasn't the silly pop of the time that is still listened to today. Only the bigger and better acts survive the test of time. Big names of today's popscene will mean nothing in twenty years and no collector will search for their absolete music. History isn't influenced by single hypes, it's written in the big lines and in the end the quality of music will prevail.
really good point

But... will that really happen? It happened in the 60s' because the music was popular AND good. But I don't think there are any musicians nowadays with that level of popularity and skill. Maybe Muse fits the bill, but that's all I can think of.


Depends on how you look at it. It's not only the radio and television that represents what music is listened to in general. There is an underground world of collectors en music enthusiasts that never gets media coverage. A good example is this website, we've got more members then some political parties Holland, but there's never a word about progarchives in our newspapers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 10:36
I checked that Rebecka Black video. To me it seems like a deliberate joke, but not in an overobvious way. I think the strategy was to create exactly the kind of popularity it has gotten.
 
It's an interesting example, because the difference between "obviously bad" and hit music that "works", can be very small. Therefore, a lot of people might be fooled into liking this song. I mean, there is a lot of crappy hit music, it's just not so obviously bad as this example.
 
You can always say "it's bad - and I like it". It's like this T-Shirt that David Lester of Mecca Normal made
http://www.buyolympia.com/q/Item=ilikecrap which says "Actually, I like crap"
 
So the big interest is created in the way it makes people feel good by being able to pinpoint that it is bad. It makes them feel smart!
 
So watching the video and saying "Oh how bad it is" - you are falling into the trap. It is supposed to be bad.
 
People like funny, bad stuff, because it's harmless, you don't have to stand for it, you just buy the mp3 for fun. Create enough interest in anything, and you can make money.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 11:22
 I keep hearing that Rebecca's song is not the music industry but  that may not be for long. Here are some interesting facts:
"Billboard estimates sales of approximately 43,000 copies, roughly equivalent to $26,700 in royalties.  "Friday" debuted on the New Zealand Singles Chart at number 33 on March 21, 2011. The song entered the Billboard Hot 100 at number 72 and rose to 58 the next week.  It has sold 87,000 copies over the two weeks."

"Rebecca Black isn't going to rest on her laurels after the online storm she's caused with 'Friday' – she's making a full album. The much-derided singer has already planned the follow-up to the internet smash single: a number called 'LOL'. She's recording the single and album at theFlying Pig Productions studio in Los Angeles, although she's working without a record deal."

http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/55718


So, if people are buying it because is that bad, then they are a lot stupider than I thought. Would you buy an orange if you know it is spoiled or it will taste bad? Would you buy a car that will take you nowhere? Will you buy a song because you know is one of the worst songs ever?

On another note, the music industry is decaying and I don't think it is about perceiving the quality of popular music. Yes, there is some truth in that time will put most music to the test and only the most enduring will last. However, what comprises the most "enduring" these days is what worries me. The industry had grown too big for it's trousers and then it all began to fall apart with the advent of the internet. Nowadays and more than ever, record deals are tied up with touring because that's were the real money is. Is more about the show than the music. 

Record sales are still down from last year which was down from the year before. The whole buying process has changed. One does not need to buy a whole album to get a particular song, that may be good on some instances but, not so much in many others. For example, many people may forgo an entire album and just buy the one song with radio exposure. Loyalty towards a band is also diminishing overall and the popular acts these days seem to be so because of the push by the industry. A band today can be popular for the following: nice hair, looking like a Cinderella story without really being one, a certain look, trait or way of expressing, etc. Somewhere around the end of the list there is the actual musical capabilities. Does Justin Beaver writes his own music? No, and I know, neither did the Monkees. I hated them too. In a way, they represented things to come. A homogenised version of the Beatles created by a corporation with the sole intent to cash into Beatlemania.

I'm not saying that there aren't talented people out there making music. There are probably more talented people playing rock than ever. In the sixties there weren't any music schools that specialized in rock and pop music like there are today. What the sixties did have though,was creative people trying to develop their own musical style that would define their musical path. Yes sounds like Yes, Pink Floyd like well, Pink Floyd. Genesis, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Camel, Tangerine Dreams, etc. were very different and very distinct from each other and any other band out there. That is what's great about progressive rock. It requires musicianship, creativity and not necessarily any radio popularity.

The so call "Classic Rawk" spoken of today consists of the songs that had heavy rotation on radio during their days. You will never hear anything from "Tales From Topographic Oceans" or "Foxtrot" in that list. Is the "Calssic Rawk" that many young people listen to these days the best of rock? Hardly, and specially so in the case of progressive rock. This is after all, the progressive rock forum, no?

To Henry Plainview, I think that kids should care about the Who plainly because their music still light-years away from some of the "best" bands today. And, if the kids are into "Classic Rawk" as you stated, then the music of The Who is a one of it's corner stones. As far as music dying, I never said music was dying but my kind of music is in a sad estate and being replaced by newer and less creative music. Enough reasons for me to complain. In my case it is not about "perceiving" the quality of popular music. I am very well defined in terms of what I like. It is after all, my stylistic bias that gives me the drive to write my rants. Isn't that what ranting is about? As far as "the point of stupidity" that you commented about, isn't it more stupid to buy the song for being bad than to write about how bad it is? "Nobody likes it" but Rebecca sure likes the $26,000 she's got from it so far.

One thing's for sure though, tomorrow is Friday and we all know what comes after that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 14:24
Originally posted by Nathaniel607 Nathaniel607 wrote:

...

Yeah, there has never been "music for the sake of music". Even in the classical and jazz ages, popularity biases existed. There was probably a lot of tonally experiment music going on during the classical age that was forgotten because it was hated.  
 
This would be true for the state of American music ... other than Frank Zappa. But it is not true for the European and many other scenes out there ... and "music for the sake of music" ... or as 10CC would say ... "art for art's sakes" ...  existed in quite a lot of countries in various forms ... that made it hard to find and listen to in America. However, the nature of art and music and people is ... that it will make itself around and there is no tsunami that can kill it ... that spirit lived and will continue to live. You simply can not kill the human spirit ... you can try as much as you want, with laws and what not, but in the end ...
 
You might consider watching the BBC special on Krautrock, so you have an idea what the tonal experiments were really all about and how it was looked at in other places and how it developed.
 
In America, it was all killed by the media and the movie studios, by making sure the "star" and "hero" system stayed in place to support the corporate and the "founding rich fathers" system, and in a joking sort of way ... keep the rest  working!
 
How you say things, or I say them, or others say them, is always an issue, and very tough to deal with ... folks around me, at work, or home, for example, don't give a sh*t about history, and any time one says something about it, it creates issues ... there is no point of reference for those people to figure out or understand what is being said, or suggested, and in the end, American Educational Systems are making sure you don't know history ... because this way you know less and follow more!


Edited by moshkito - March 31 2011 at 14:41
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 14:58
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

 
So, if people are buying it because is that bad, then they are a lot stupider than I thought. Would you buy an orange if you know it is spoiled or it will taste bad? Would you buy a car that will take you nowhere? Will you buy a song because you know is one of the worst songs ever?
 
I don't think people who buy this music think so much in terms of "good" and "bad". The quality isn't the priority for them. I think there are those who buy it "for fun". Those who are more "serious" are those who likes the girl in the video and there are probably girls who wants to identify themselves with her. The video is of course just as important as the music. People like to be part of something that is "current".
 
Most people aren't interested in music. I believe many people have low self-esteem when it comes to music - they aren't interested in anything particular , and doesn't believe they have an understanding of music (and maybe they don't). They may find a song like this appealing because it doesn't require anything from them. It's not "difficult", it has a feel-good atmosphere, it may be "bad" or silly but that's just fun. It's music for those who doesn't care about music.
 
Commercials are similar. Most of them are "feel-good" and childish. At least here in Sweden, where they all try to be funny, or being very light and easy and happy, and overly clear, it's all presented as if it was made for very small children.
 
Well, that's my theories.Smile
 
But it is a special case, really. I've already forgotten the song entirely, which is nice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 15:16
I like some of the responses on this thread. It shows a diverse train of thought. I can see the comment about people like in Rebecca's song because it doesn't require anything from them. One of my wife's pet peeves about my music has to do with that. She doesn't like progressive rock even though she recognises the musicianship that goes into it. In her mind, it takes too much of your attention which she is not ready to give in.

In my mind, I like music for music's sake. I don't dance (my wife hates that too), I don't like cranking the radio (I actually don't much care for radio with a few exceptions). I like to sometimes just sitting in a chair listening to an album with my headphones on. I observe the artwork and read all the liner notes but, more than anything I like to listen to the music. Many times even the lyrics become irrelevant. To me it's all about the music. I guess that is why I have a hard time accepting the fact that people will buy something just because. Meanwhile, there are many records out there worth a good listen that go unnoticed because they are not "catchy" or, as in Rebecca's case, bad enough.

Wilmon91, you made the comment about commercials. The issue being that I would not buy a DVD that would only have commercials in it. Not ever.

The fact that I feel like a dinosaur for liking quality in my music is the very reason as to why I believe the whole thing is in a decaying orbit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 15:31
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

... 

So what gives? The listeners. They are the ones driving this whole thing. The days of loving music for music's sake are long gone. My whole music genre (progressive rock), is stagnant in growth and only adored by those who were there when it all unfolded, thirty-odd years ago. One look at a prog-rock concert today and you know where we stand. A sea of grey and shiny heads, faded concert shirts older than some grown people (don't fret about it, I count myself in this group). Girls still dancing to music never meant for dance. Cute in the seventies when they where nineteen and twenty year old. Not so cute today.

 ...

 
The days of loving music, or anything else, are NOT gone. What is gone is our ability to see that through the unbelievable mass media tsunami, not to mention advertising ... all of which work really hard to make sure they sell their product and if you don't like it, you are in the wrong and not cool, or worse ... you are not politically correct!
 
And not quite the same, but a similar path takes place here ... where sometimes I feel like that I can not say anything right, or have an opinion because I am not a part of the "core", or the "click" ... and therefore not as important, or the things I say have no value ... it's like asking you ... how do you want a truth to come to you? ... with a Mack Truck? with a feather? with a kick in the ass? with an expansive divorce? ... you choose ... and that would suggest that sometimes, what someone is saying, or writing, is not important ... and its value is ignored ... making the ability to get through, for ANY artist, much harder ... but it also tells you something that Sociology 101 teaches you ... the click doesn't change and doesn't like to add people either!
 
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Today is different, today is not the same (Peter Gabriel's quote for all of us who still remember it). Today's young people have the attention span of a fly on speed. Their music comes and goes in a flash and without any of us noticing it. Kid's today don't know who The Who is and worst, they don't care. "Tommy? Tommy who?" That's right kid.
...
 
Did you realize what a double entendre this is?
 
Tommy was BLIND ... and the whole thing was about us all opening our eyes out ... and seeing and appreciating what was out there right in front of us ... but we have so many filters in front of us, that seeing anything is almost impossible ... you can NOT compute enough and that fast ... it's that simple.
 
There was a film that was magnificent that in many ways showed this ... it was "The Man Who Fell To Earth" ... and it showed Davie Bowie looking at so many tv's at the same time that you and I could not count fast enough ... in the end, stuff like that hurts our perception and our ability to see things clearly ... because we tend to be "influenced" by something or other almost all of the time. It was at that time, that I knew that the media had killed the hippie days, and made us all look dirty, sick, drugged out and pathetic, to ensure that "their version of right" was the correct thing to do. And of course ... they killed most of the music ... but it was too late for the big ones to be killed ... they had already given their lives "for us". How? ... They stuck to their work ... so hard, that we didn't see them fighting that same establishment ... that you are fighting now!
 
This is specially hard for kids ... and the only way to grow is to shut it all off and find an avenue to do so with, and this could be one of the arts or something else, and sometimes religion, or a spiritual path of some kind helps ... but it does not take away the truth of the stuff in front of you ...
 
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It all makes for a sad estate of the music. Good music still gets out these days. But those making it find it much harder to squeeze a living out of it. Can't see Chris Squire being carried out to the stage in a giant egg like Lady Gaga did at the Oscars. Yet, at the same time I find lots of resistance from prog-rock's fans. For starters, they are not that different from the kids when it comes to paying for music. Basically, no one likes to pay for music anymore. It makes it difficult because there are many bands that need the income. If anything, just to keep making music.
...
 
I think that you are making an assumption that other bands are not making an income and are not trying.
 
The fact of the matter is that things have changed. And today's musicians only need to know that there is no Yellow Brick Road until the day you die, when you might have a good enough perspective to see what you have lived through.
 
That means that today, you have to do something else ... get on the road and go after it.
 
It has nothing to do with "progressive" music or "jazz" or "blues" ... or anything else ... it has to do with your own internal belief in the music you are playing ... and when you are not defined enough within, you will have a harder time making a point out there that will grab some attention.
 
IF, I have a complaint, about too many of the "prog" bands, is that they are not studied enough, and learned enough, to even know ... that they can do more than just a few songs ... because it is all they know. You can sit down and learn most songs fast, and Rock Band helps now ... the problem is, you can NOT make it out there, if you don't know where you are inside with that instrument of yours on your hands ... and the minute you do, you would not give a cahoot about Lady Bruhaha any more than you would a Porn Star, or a Movie Star ... well ... check that ..  you can always sleep with them and it might make you feel more important as a star of some sort ...
 
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Take the band YES for example, many fans have gone into bashing the band for not including Jon Anderson these days. To me, it's all about the music and not so much about who is or who isn't in the band anymore.
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Old habits die hard! .... we couldn't possibly conceive that the new line up could do something as good or better!
 
I guess we don't know King Crimson very well, either!
 
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One way or another I'll be making more music. It is something I enjoy doing. I also enjoy having well-respected musicians play on my records and I am working towards continuing that. My integrity as an artist won't let me do a song like Rebbeca Black's and my looks won't let me do a video like her neither. $25,000.00 is a lot of money made by a single song coming from an unknown. I could easily use a lot less than that in order to keep going.

...

The only suggestion I would like to make is ... do something because it is your love ... not because of the money ... remember ... you can not stop the human spirit and the money? ... someone else will steal it, or take it anyway ... but you need to keep the "insides" clean and looking to do more of what you see ... and do not look back, or stop to look back, or worry about what's back there ... and anyone trying to stop you ... has little chance.
 
Art ... for us on the inside ... is like this ... I don't need someone to tell me if it is good or bad ... I just do it ... because that person is not the definition of my work or my inner light!
 
Again ... as I like to say ... it's all about "you" ... and the past is over. Forget YES, forget Jon ... forget everything else ... and just be you. Doesn't mean that once in a while I would not stop by the funeral spot, and place a flower ... and at that moment, you can say thank you, and shed a tear or two ... but the minute you leave, it's a new day ... a new life ... a new song ... and the rest be damned for trying to stop you!
 
Now you know about Pedro! ... something that I write about in here, that most do not understand and sometimes think I am too stuck up ... and in the end, it has nothing to do with "stuck up" at all ... not to mention I'm not gay! Embarrassed


Edited by moshkito - March 31 2011 at 15:46
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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leonalvarado View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2011 at 16:19
[QUOTE=moshkito]I think that you are making an assumption that other bands are not making an income and are not trying.[quote]

I'm not making that assumption at all! I had recorded two albums, and have promote them as much as I could through this forum as well as through facebook, myspace, reverbnation, lastfm, discogs, its own website, a few radio interviews, some press reviews. I sank a lot of my money and yet to see the breaking even point which is all I'm looking for. I will be making more music in the future. It is something I enjoy. However, there are costs associated with trying to put put the best product you can. I've worked with Abbey Road Studios, I've worked with Metropolis Mastering in London. I've worked with Ty Tabor (kings-X) and John Goodsall (Brand X) plays the guitar on my song as well as Bill Bruford's playing on the drum tracks. It is not easy or cheap to record music when there are many people like that involved.

Despite the costs, I managed to put the music out because it was something I love. I'm just baffled by the fact that somebody like a thirteen-year-old girl can make $26K with a song that is horrible and yet, at the same time, somebody who put his sweat and soul (not to mention his own money) to come up with a decent record, can't seem to catch a break. All I'm looking for is the opportunity to cover most of my expenses (I'm not even all of them).

[QUOTE=moshkito]The only suggestion I would like to make is ... do something because it is your love ... not because of the money ... remember ... you can not stop the human spirit and the money? ... someone else will steal it, or take it anyway ... but you need to keep the "insides" clean and looking to do more of what you see ... and do not look back, or stop to look back, or worry about what's back there ... and anyone trying to stop you ... has little chance.[quote]

I do the music because of love. That doesn't mean I can't be realistic does it? Love doesn't pay for studio time or for top notch musicians. What I'm looking is for people to go check it out and listen to the stuff. Then if they like it, I would like for them to buy the Cd or download the music. At the end, the more people buy, the more I will be able to offer musically. Just because I love doing it doesn't mean that ten years down the road I would like to be tens of thousands of dollars in the red. Love or no love, that would not make much sense, or would it?

Regarding the "core" or the "click" on these forums, I agree to the extend that I'm not in the "click" and therefore some of my postings go unnoticed. It bothers me a bit because I do find some people being somewhat snobbish when in fact they do not know who really is at the end of a thread. I may not be a household name but I know enough people within the industry as I have done work for many progressive acts like YES, Jethro Tull, Genesis, Jeff Beck and Deep Purple among many. 

The whole point of my initial posting had to do with people ignoring the music and concentrating on the semantics instead of on the sound of the music itself. Like I said before, I have seen YES at least ten times but the last concert I went (last month or so) was one of the best concerts I've seen from them. "Close to the Edge" just sounded incredible. Perhaps the new lineup won't be able to put out any better music than they did with Anderson. But for the music's sake, I hope they can. At least better material than what they did for the Keys to ascension and up albums (not my favourite YES period). If the new lineup can do anything at least as good as Drama, then we will all benefit from that. It is about the music :)
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 09:11
Originally posted by wilmon91 wilmon91 wrote:

Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

 
So, if people are buying it because is that bad, then they are a lot stupider than I thought. Would you buy an orange if you know it is spoiled or it will taste bad? Would you buy a car that will take you nowhere? Will you buy a song because you know is one of the worst songs ever?
 
I don't think people who buy this music think so much in terms of "good" and "bad". The quality isn't the priority for them. I think there are those who buy it "for fun". Those who are more "serious" are those who likes the girl in the video and there are probably girls who wants to identify themselves with her. The video is of course just as important as the music. People like to be part of something that is "current".

I'm amazed by the obtuseness of your responses. People are buying it even though it's "bad" because it's funny. I don't know if you live in a no fun zone or what, but we humans have a feeling called "laughter". This is generally regarded as an enjoyable experience and humans are often willing to pay money to elicit it. You might as well be chastising people for watching Plan 9 From Outer Space because it's not The Godfather. Comparing media to physical objects is impossible and misses the point.

And her album is probably going to tank, anyway, because it will be too self-aware. The reason Friday organically spread so much faster than a song by The Lonely Island is its naive sincerity. That can't be now that she knows the entire internet hates her. 
 
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

 
To Henry Plainview, I think that kids should care about the Who plainly because their music still light-years away from some of the "best" bands today. And, if the kids are into "Classic Rawk" as you stated, then the music of The Who is a one of its corner stones.

This is not true, but this "fact" is the basis of your whole argument. If you're going to make the massive leap of claiming that music has intrinsic worth (which it does not), you should at least pick someone more universally regarded than The Who as something everyone should be listening to. And I was using the term classic rawk as an expression of my dislike for rock played on the radio, which you seem to share. So lol. 
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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